Ton - Elena

25 Ton

e: “Ton, I realize this post is long… please don’t read it, it is not meant for you.”

if the post is not meant for me then why do you write with “me” in mind and refer to “me” throughout… (you might try that exercise again elena — think of “me” as you). never mind, that’s a rhetorical question, i don’t expect you to answer it. i know the reason why… or at least A reason why, there is no doubt more than a single reason… i’m sure you could come up with a few off-the-cuff, flippantly superficial and dismissive responses to the question in order to obfuscate your core issues again. i know the answer, but you cannot “submit” to be told, you would not accept my view of things anyway, so i’ll leave it to you to reflect and ponder the obvious contradictions in your post… but i’ll give you a clue — sounds like the river in egypt.

what you write here is not atypical for you, it’s attempted grandiloquence which includes tangential flights into far flung, disconnected abstractions… what’s this attempt at “loftiness” really about? it appears to the outside observer (that’s me), to be a manifestation of inflation. a lot of what you are “saying” is a restatement of thoughts and sentiments contained by my previous post… although you look for points of difference, for the most part you are simply re-wording what was already said, this is a game you “love” to play, it’s ‘one-ups-manship’ – a game you are in fact compelled to play…. have you thought about this compulsion which controls you, wherein you always feel you MUST have the final word on any given topic ? it’s a compulsion wherein even when common ground is found, you still feel the need to find a different way of saying what has already been stated. this allows you the sense that you can “take credit for” — and toward this end especially, you feel compelled to create differences rather than acknowledging areas of agreement.

what you’ve done again is to simply change the terminology in an attempt to “co-opt” ideas; ok elena, if you like i’ll use your term — her “false ego” — this does describe a lot of what goes on here with you which you fail to recognize or acknowledge IN YOURSELF, it’s always “out there” in “the other” – and also, more generally, it’s manifesting in this grandiosely nebulous concept of the masses to which you are so fond of “objectively” referring.

e: “In an individual the false ego is ALWAYS looking to put other people down so that IT can remain “afloat” if not “above”. An interesting exploration of the false ego understanding that it is a “reactive” “defensive” mechanism of the human being…”

yes elena, there it is in a nutshell so to speak, you’ve identified the crux of your game of ‘one-ups’ — your “false ego” compels you to behave in such a way that you feel that you need always maintain or establish the imaginary ‘upper hand’. this explains your inability to cope with, and your behavior in relation to the “audacious intrusion” by anyone who even offers an alternative view or questions your point of view.

e: “Questioned, confronted and tried to present something higher and although that highness was never seriously challenged I was attacked personally until you banned me.”

yes, how could “your highness” ever be “seriously challenged” — what do you imagine yourself to be ? it sounds like you imagine you are above the rest of humanity, you imagine you’re queen, or some other type of “royalty” — that’s what the implication is, do you see the inflation unconsciously operating here ? you always seem to feel the unconscious compulsion to get the “upper hand” to present something “higher” — what is that about elena ? and what is it that gives you such difficulty in distinguishing and discriminating between individuals ? you continually fail to recognize the differences between individuals… it’s a lazy habit of mind to simply lump everyone into a single “category” — this is partly an aspect of your inflation, your unrealistic perspective from an inflated self-image fails to recognize and treat the individual as such, but rather, from your throne you “prefer” to treat the individual simply as the “lumpen masses.” it’s an unrealistic perspective that fails to recognize the individual, this has a connection to an after-effect of years in the cult, which also fed into your inflated notions about being “special” and even imagined “royalty” — this unrealistic perspective also has connections with your trust issues as well…. it’s all tied up together, that’s why it’s called a “complex.”

even more than that, this “false ego” of yours explains why, when it seems that some common ground may finally be shared, you are compelled to (for example) rewrite and change the terminologies in order to feel “above” and in control of the dialogue… i left that last post thinking it was neutral enough that it would not elicit a defensive/aggressive response from you, it’s a neutral post about false and true pride and humility, a follow-up to and examination of your little self-righteous temper-tantrum over what you refer to as “pride” — go ahead and review. then you deny that your response is to me, yet you find a way to twist and manipulate it in such a way that you are able to “attack” and attempt to “besmirch” my “name” yet again… but that’s alright elena, i’ll continue to forgive you because you know not what you do, you are unaware of the projection making mechanism that controls you and so you are helpless to avoid it… so i keep pointing it out in the hopes that someday the lights will go on for you:

e: “The parts have lost contact with the whole.”

that’s your perception elena, that’s coming from your own state of being and it has something to do with your seeming mania for the “we” mentality… there are other issues connected to your preoccupation; loss of identity, loss of sense of community — leaving the cult, for example… this is a state of mind you should be examining… IN YOURSELF. when you learn to balance individuality within the context of “the whole” then you’ll begin to get it.

after starting the post 24 with a denial that it is to me, you address the “me” which is you, yet again:

e: “The mechanism that you Ton present in your post in which an individual’s level of pride is independent from society is an aspect of the current neo-liberal ideology that tries to instill in the masses of individuals that they alone are responsible for their state of misery just like cults do.”

and

e: “Many people like you and those in the fofblog might want to pretend that everything is alright as long as you don’t allow the shit to sprinkle in your faces but that shit that you’re avoiding to confront today will be twice as powerful in your children’s lives and your children twice as weak to confront it because that will be what they learnt from you.”

what is this supposed to be elena? it sounds like you are trying to conjure a curse to put on the heads of my children. you haven’t a clue as to the reality of the situation, and particularly the reality of my personal situation. it’s all “out there” for you, nothing can be applied or pertains to you, right elena…? it’s all about the “evil of others” while you float serenely above it all writing about it on this silly little blog, which does what exactly ? but elena, i have hope for you, someday in the future, when you finally get a clue, you’ll come down to earth and stop casting primitively superstitious aspersions on others, you’ll get off the imaginary pulpit, stop the sermonizing and take responsibility for yourself as an individual, you’ll stop escaping into abstraction and blaming others for your problems and as a result, you’ll become a much more practical / effective member of “the collective” you are so fond of…. it’s not an “either /or” situation elena, it’s about balance amongst components, but the balance begins and ends with becoming a responsible individual who is able to manifest freely in the larger community.

e: “In Jesus’ story, we are presented with the idea that he “sacrifices” his self to redeem humanity, so he “consciously” surrenders to crucifixion “triggering” a “civilizing” process.”

we (you and i elena) have talked about your martyr complex before… here it is again, writ large…. is that what your suffering is about elena ? is that what you imagine you are here for, do you imagine your pain and suffering and the anger and resentment you feel are “sacrifices” you make in order to “civilize” the lowly, “unwashed” and “slumbering” masses which you “objectively” comment on from your lofty perch here (?) do you see how patronizing and arrogant that attitude is ?

e: “What you want is submission. What you want to destroy is my pride and I am not going to let you because that is sick. Pride is a world apart from arrogance…”

let’s use your terms here, “false ego” and “true I” — destruction of your false ego may be a painful process elena, but it’s a necessary step to take toward realizing your true I…. that “destruction” though, is up to you — i may be “a finger pointing toward the moon” but it’s up to you to recognize it…. and that’s where the “submission” comes in… it’s not about submission to me or anyone else outside of yourself though, it’s about recognizing something for yourself, about yourself and “submitting” to the truth of that realization… for example, the evident anger and resentment you’re experiencing — now that you’ve acknowledged that fact, the next step is to realize that the anger and resentment has a source, and that the source is not outside of you, it has something to do with deep pain, the anger and resentment are a defense of the pain you feel. “submission” as you put it, has to come from the right place, that’s up to you… what keeps you from it is another defense mechanism which you’ve already acknowledged, and that is arrogance. in some cases, “pride” and arrogance are synonymous, and not at all “a world apart.”

Humpty Dumpty
Sentado en un muro.
Humpty Dumpty
Se ha caído muy duro.
Todos los caballeros
Y jinetes del rey,
Fueron a levantarlo
Y no pudieron con él.

26 Elena
It's too bad we can't hear each other Ton but I sincerely thank you for not using a ridiculing tone and actually saying what you think directly and sincerely. That is a huge progress. I am sorry you missed the points that mattered and too bad that you continue to try to convince me that there is something wrong with me instead of actually looking at the material and what it is addressing. While you think I miss the whole sphere of my self I think you miss the whole sphere of "life" so perhaps that's why we are biting in each other's sandbox. We compensate each other's deficiencies? Have a great day Ton, I'm not in the mood for this drama. Life is too short for this. What I give I give full of hope and reason and if you turn it into muck that's your problem. You can deal with it when you've got the time. Love you! Wish you were closer and would take me out to dance instead! But since you aren't I better take my self!