We are One Ton, we are still One!

91. ton - April 23, 2010 [Edit]
e: “You could of course be this precise but you won’t because it would clearly show the fallacy you’re in.”

and what about “the fallacy” YOU’re in elena ?

this is yet another projection… and all of these lame attempts to malign me only reflects negatively on you…. but up until now i’ve tolerated your attempt to characterize me negatively because i realize that you need help, you see elena, whether you recognize it or not, this is my attempt to help you. so i suggest that you hold off on your attempted personal attacks because i see them for what they are and they reflect nothing about me but so much about you…

i also suggest that you return to a writing style that is closer to your heart, and from your heart, you know how to do this and you displayed it beautifully in your recent account of a trip to the countryside, that was beautiful elena because it was totally unpretentious. personal insights ala journaling, suits you much better and you’ll find it much a more therapuetuc activity than hurling insults. there is no dignity in that. even in your charming little account of the weekend trip you felt compelled to end it with that horribly petty little personal swipe at me… it really ruined an otherwise charming piece of writing.

pretentiousness is the adjective i would use to describe all this bombastic, self-righteous grandstanding, as is reflected in your current cause celeb, the “ism” of the moment… all this energy you’ve already wasted on trying to speak for others when you need to learn to speak for yourself…. unless and until you speak for yourself, your favorite slogan “WE ARE ONE” is nothing more than empty rhetoric. i suggest you give up attempting to bury yourself here with these “scholarly” papers, the abstraction of abstracts, these cut and pasted definitions… return to your heart elena, find the beauty in your precious beating heart.

look elena, just to set the record straight, i’ve been very precise AND very direct with you here elena but you don’t like it, in fact you dislike it so much that you ignore it and deny what i am saying and you deny that i am being very precise in my observations about what i see you exhibiting here. for several reasons elena, i will not be so precise with you in the future: you can’t handle the truth, it makes you uncomfortable, you choose to ignore what i “say” to you… or, if you do selectively choose to pay attention to something i point out, it’s only to serve some aspect of your self-pity / martyr complex. you are so lost in your projections that any observations i offer are very often thrown back at me. but the main reason i will not be so precise with you in the future elena, is because you are living in a state of denial and nothing i can say will change that, therefore anything that i do say is a waste of my time and effort and right now i don’t have the luxury of wasting time…

elena, one question before i leave: do you deny that you need help ?

Reply
92. Elena - April 23, 2010 [Edit]
Dear Ton, This is what you’re denying. It’s very concrete and substantial. I don’t yet know what you think I am denying. Whether I need help? Let me answer that in a new post.

Appraisal — Explaining events; defining the problem.
The problem has been defined here and you continue to avoid it:
You were repeatedly disrespectful to me in the fofblog where I tried to participate after having been banned offering ideas that I was working on for the realization of a book hoping I would get some feed back. You totally ignored the ideas I presented and concentrated on attacking me personally for not being good enough and asking me to read some more material. You stated that I was dishonest for not talking about my personal experiences with entheogens. When I offered you the feed back that you were asking for you continued to attack me at which point I stated that you were manipulating me like Robert. That anyone who pretends to make another person do something to accept them is manipulative for as human beings we do not need to prove anything to be accepted. Such treatment acts directly against our human condition and rights. I was then viciously insulted by Nigel when I pointed out that he could not see what was happening and thanked him for the insult without responding negatively to his assault but it was I who got banned. These are the facts you are avoiding to deal with Ton.

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93. ton - April 23, 2010 [Edit]
e: “These are the facts you are avoiding…”

these are not facts elena, this sorry little picture you paint again of yourself as the hapless victim is just what you’ve presented here over and over again ad nauseum – it’s simply YOUR interpretation of YOUR perception – that does not make it “factual”elena – in fact, as YOUR subjective interpretation of YOUR subjective perception, all of this is quite the opposite of being factual. we’ve been over this to the point of absurdity and if you doubt or deny THAT fact, then you go back and re-read the thread… i’m finished with repeating myself. as for your own repeating of this same “sad” story over and over and over again, it does not matter how many times you “say” it elena, it does not make it true for me… apparently the relentless repetition is needed to convince yourself of your own subjective version of events.

you are avoiding my question elena: do you deny that you need help?

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94. Elena - April 23, 2010 [Edit]
Why are you so upset Ton? Do you think you need help?

I am writing your answer, do you think I have enough time to speak?

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95. Elena - April 23, 2010 [Edit]
Do I deny that I need help?
What kind of help are you talking about? A shrink? Yes, I don’t need a shrink. I had some wonderful shrinks twenty-five years ago for about three years after I tried to commit suicide but no, I definitely don’t need a shrink these days. They do help just by sitting there and keeping people company while we turn over our lives and look at them but I’m not interested in turning my life over too much these days. There are so many other wonderful things to look at and we’ve got enough problems in the world to be too self-centered.

What I do think we all need, including myself, is each other. We need the human community. We need to be able to help each other not because we are family or friends or associates but because we understand that we all need help. We need to reassure each other that no one will be abandoned and that we will try to save people when there are disasters and when there are wars and cults, industries and institutions that act against us. We need to structure society in such a way that small groups of people are connected to each other and understand their place in their small community and in the community of mankind. Belgium has a very good system of connectedness in neighborhoods that actually works for some purposes. We need each other to re-structure society in such a way that work is work for culture and our well being and not work for money and survival.

We need to connect to all beings before us and honor them and give them their right place in our society and recover an understanding of death as the inner side of life: the side that gives it force and meaning and inspires it. We must know that all those who have died before us are trying to help us and they do it simply because they understand the need to help us. They do it because they are connected to us and live both inside and outside of our selves.

We need to understand how we are connected in the hierarchies. The horror we live in our societies related to power and hierarchy comes from our lack of understanding the real meaning of hierarchy. True hierarchy, true kings, true heroes, exist to help those below them. In our materialistic individualistic times people in power assume that they are there to be served and that they can make people serve because they have the money to pay but that is a world that is upside down and backwards in which the abuses of those in economic power are hurting their own self as much as those below them. People who can help others have love. They have a love that is not connected to their desire. It is a love that inspires every aspect of their lives and other people when they meet them. And yet they are sacrificed and burnt at the stake. And still their love impregnates our lives.

Each body-seed is a human tree and our branches grow towards each other’s in the forest of our culture. We are life. We are love. We are One.