Elena's flabbergasted reply!

139. Elena - April 12, 2010 [Edit]
dear elena… first i would like to say that i am sorry you are banned from the blog, that was certainly not my intention in engaging with you.

How ridiculous, please do not call me dear Elena, there is nothing dear about me for you, all you’ve been trying to do for years now is attack me and find faults in me and now that you see that I can show what you are doing you come with this cheap apology. If you were serious about yourself you would take your understanding to the fofblog and ask that I not be banned because you were a sick abuser all along with your tone and disregard of everything I tried to be and say. Now that you got me banned you are going to tell me that you regret it but not take a real step with your regret. Come on Ton, life is a little more serious than that.
Ton:
with all due respect, i think you are confused about what constitutes “abuse.” it seems that anyone who questions your convictions, is in your mind “aggressive” and you think of the questioning of your beliefs as “abuse.” what is it that you said when you were allowed back on the blog:
You’re a sick man. Don’t cover yourself up with gift-paper. You were extremely abusive post after post and knew you were protected by a bunch of people who are just as hurt as you are because I’ve questioned you all to the very bones without even abusing you except when I started screaming and calling you sick fascists which you perfectly show that you are just that, a sick fascist taking advantage of a woman begging for space to come back and share her work of months with a few people that she considers might understand the findings. You were aggressive to the quick with all your disgusting remarks of REALLY? Oh gee, and all those things that you still don’t think are nearly that aggressive dear, not really abusive dear, just “fuck you” with a smile dear just like Robert DEAR because every time you patronized me and ridiculed me what you’re really saying is that, fuck you Elena dear.
104. Elena – April 1, 2010
“Today I sent the following post to the fofblog. I feel strong enough now to apologize and ask to return and not so vulnerable to take a no as I was before. It is not that I agree with the position most members took there but that agreeing is not essential in democracy. As long as there is no “crime”, disagreement is a positive force.
Hi Folks,
I would like to apologize to each and every one of you for the obnoxious behavior I managed to get to in my frustration with this whole issue that led to my banning and ask to join this conversation again.”
elena, i agree with you, a reason for your instability has to do with your sense of vulnerability.
You’re a sick man Ton, sick to the quick, and here you are again telling me about my instability because I am vulnerable as if you didn’t know what I’ve been through here and there, as if you didn’t know from the moment I joined that blog that it was an act of great courage on my behalf to even attempt to go back after the conflicts we’ve had. I do not thank you or forgive you until you act like a man and at least attempt to fix the sickness you and so many in there are indulging in.

Ton: you claimed to be “strong enough” but now in hindsight i see you really were not…
How ridiculous and sick of you, no one is ever strong enough for your abuses, NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE, no one has to put up with your attacking them post after post trying to diminish them because you are just taking advantage of a situation to hurt them just like any nazi would hurt a jew in front of his nazi friends or a racist a black woman. You are sick to the bones and are trying to cover yourself up now but you’ll still be all that until you make real efforts to change what you’ve done of which I can imagine you’ll do nothing because you in fact don’t have the courage nor most of you in there.

after all, i do know from first-hand experience that recovery takes time and you are still newly-sprung from the cult, so i should maybe have known better and been a little more sensitive to your vulnerability… a vulnerability which is understandable.
Elena: Oh really Ton, now you are aware although you’ve been coming to my blog all this time? ——-
Ton: after reading your assessment of our exchanges i admit to the dual nature of misinterpretation,
Oh NO, forget it, there is nothing dual about our misinterpretation, I understand very well and interpreted unfortunately too late and allowed you to keep abusing me for too long. I so wanted to participate that I kept on agreeing with your abuses so that I could and while you went on and on no one protested but when I expressed what you were doing I was banned.

Ton: in other words, misinterpretation is not a “one way street” it goes in both directions, and communication, especially in this format, is rife with the potential for mis-readings, and misinterpretations. obviously your perception is that i was too rough on you… and now that i’ve read your assessment here, i can see that mostly you were putting up a strong facade which was to mask your sense of vulnerability… while in fact all along, beneath your seeming self-assurance, you were feeling vulnerable.
Elena: Keep fooling yourself you sicko, again, you are unwilling to take full responsibility for your self and instead insist on the fact that the problem here is not your abuses but that I am too vulnerable.

Ton:
so i apologize for taking you at “face value”
Elena: That’s all you apologize for: taking me at face value!! Not your abusive behavior day after day, post after post. Sicko.

Ton: but i think you have to admit that in your vulnerable condition, you are overly-sensitive, overly-defensive, and overly-reactive and this condition colors and exaggerates your perceptions of “abuse” and “aggression.”
Elena: No, I wasn’t over sensitive when I got to that blog, I was beautifully strong and loving and put up with so much of your abuse to the very end and even thanked you for your time and moved out but told Nigel what you were doing: manipulating me like Robert manipulates people: diminishing them so that he can have control over them, hurting them so that he feels strong, in an environment in which he knows people will support him.

Ton: elena said:
“Don’t insist on a conversation with someone who has an abusive tone from the beginning…”

i hope with time, maybe in a few years from now when you really are “stronger,” you will see in the example below, that the place you identify here as “where the difficulties began,” really has no trace of “abuse” or “personal attack” — it is simply a commentary on your assessment of “humanism.” from here it got worse and worse for you because your sense of vulnerbility colored perceptions and created “a mountain of a mole-hill.” i think that where your confusion lies is in the fact that when you are so strongly identified with an idea, and it’s called into question, then you interpret that as a “personal attack” and “abuse.”
Elena: again wrong Ton, why aren’t you getting any? Is it so difficult for you to accept even the tiniest responsibility of what you actually do to other people? Here, where it began, instead of taking anything I had said, anything and discussing or adding to it you begin a systematic deconstruction of everything I say on the premise that it is not good enough, that I haven’t done my homework, etc, etc, all of which are all too familiar to you for me to have to repeat them. Keep hiding from yourself and abusing people in your scale just like Robert abuses people on his and the world will continue to be what you make it to be.

38. ton – April 6, 2010
32 Elena
“….the greatest challenge Humanists would face, is not to allow Humanism to become a doctrine.”
if it has “ism” or “ist” as a suffix,
it ALREADY IS “a doctrine.”
i’m reminded of this:
“In a way ideologies are drug fixes, because they fix some certain kind of mental disequilibrium. You just give yourself a shot of Marxism or Hegelian idealism and say,

‘Oh, that makes the pain go away!’ ” terrence mckenna
***********Elena:
Here is where the difficulties began. There is no looking at the idea of humanism or the ideas I presented, just a swipe away with everything because it is a doctrine or an ideology forgetting that whatever it is stating also comes from a doctrine and an ideology. The tone is already very aggressive although I have not expressed any aggression myself and simply presented the ideas.
——————————————————

i wish you well Elena
To wish you well Ton is to wish you to be a human being but I doubt you can make yourself have such courage.