Ton and Elena in the labyrinth!

89. Elena - April 22, 2010 [Edit]
Hello Ton,

I suppose we’ve made very great progress because you’ve at least stopped using smoosching my ass tone. Here is a synthesis of the aspects mentioned in the previous posts and I’d like to take a look at them more closely so that what you seem to be avoiding is clear. You could of course be this precise but you won’t because it would clearly show the fallacy you’re in.

What is — A firm foundation anchored in observed phenomenon and valid logic
Inquiry, Evidence, and Argument — Curiosity, observed phenomena, and logically valid conclusions drawn from the evidence are the powerful tools we use to understand what is.

Inquiry- you’ve no willingness for inquiry, you’re set on the premise that I am sick and repeat it in every post, and supposing I were sick for you it justifies the mistreatment and attacks. Isn’t that already very interesting?

Evidence- Analysis of Conversation 1 Attitude and meaning in words. http://battlesword.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&updated-max=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=50
So that whole analysis of our discussion in the fofblog that you’ve already admitted to being too pushy while I was not, now doesn’t count for the next step which would be admitting your behavior in public in the FOFBlog and apologizing under the simple principle that when one makes a mistake one tries to correct it.

Argument- While I’ve presented you with concrete arguments about everything we’ve been discussing your only argument is that I am sick. Sick without argument! You have nothing to show that I am behaving in a sick way except your own personal attacks and conclusions. Nothing factual.

Distortions — Altered or inaccurate perceptions of reality.
Stating that I am sick is a distortion of reality

The theory of knowledge — Deciding what to believe.
Your assumption that I am sick is the whole basis of your construction, with that you can justify your excesses? Isn’t that a little sick itself? Since this person is sick I can exceed myself in my attacks?

Human Nature — The intrinsic similarities shared by all humans.
Motivation — Stimulating movement.

What is your motivation Ton? It is obviously not to help me for you cannot move out of the confrontational sphere no matter how many outlets I offer you.

Dignity — The quality of worth and honor intrinsic to every person.
There is no dignity in smooshing a person’s ass or using the tone you’ve been using or labeling them as sick and using that to justify your behavior

Human Rights — The inalienable and just claims of all members of the human family.
You keep denying whatever I say as if it weren’t just a human right. I am asking you to recognize your role in my banning and correcting it. I did nothing against you or anyone to get banned and it attacked various aspects of my human rights to get banned.

Honor — Absence of shame
You are trying to shame me repeating and repeating that I am sick and therefore deserve the treatment I got. This is where your manipulation resides.

Responsibility — Having a duty or obligation to act.
This is what you’re avoiding. You cannot face them at the fofblog and recognize your behavior.

Stature — The ability to help others
You clearly showed your inability

Strengths — Your personal virtues and assets.
You’re unwilling to recognize any strengths in my work.

Humiliation — A loss of stature or image.
“spoon feeding you” “smooshing your ass” etc. are all humiliating terms.

Self-image — Your perception of your actual stature.
The self image you want me to have is that I am sick and deserve your treatment and my being banned.

Self-esteem — Your appraisal of your actual stature.
Consistent humiliation such as yours plus being banned would lower anyone’s self esteem… unless they get out of the circle in which you’re in.

Values — A principle considered worthwhile or valuable. A standard of judgment or appraisal.

What are your values Ton? Mine that stand for democracy, humanism, dialogue are no good for you, what are yours?

Goals — A desired end state or outcome. Choosing a direction.
What is your goal?

Appraisal — Explaining events; defining the problem.
The problem has been defined here repeatedly and you continue to avoid it:
You were repeatedly disrespectful to me in the fofblog where I tried to participate after having been banned offering ideas that I was working on for the realization of a book hoping I would get some feed back. You totally ignored the ideas I presented and concentrated on attacking me personally for not being good enough and asking me to read some more material. You stated that I was dishonest for not talking about my personal experiences with entheogens. When I offered you the feed back that you were asking for you continued to attack me at which point I stated that you were manipulating me like Robert. That anyone who pretends to make another person do something to accept them is manipulative for as human beings we do not need to prove anything to be accepted. Such treatment acts directly against our human condition and rights. I was then viciously insulted by Nigel when I pointed out that he could not see what was happening and thanked him for the insult without responding negatively to his assault but it was I who got banned. These are the facts you are avoiding to deal with Ton.

Coping — Responding to loss; defining the solution.
You are unwilling to cope with the solution

Stress — Resisting loss; implementing the solution.
You keep turning on a yo-yo without implementing the solution.

Congruence — Alignment and agreement.
There is no congruence in your statements or behaviour

Authentic Self — Anyone with aligned and congruent self-image, stature, and public image.
There is no alignment between your self image, stature or public image.

Authentic Choices — Genuine, enduring value.
The values I present you with are consistently put down while at the same time, you’re unwilling to present yours or present the same ones I am presenting but they are supposed to be yours and not ours for you deny the value of mine.

Limbic Attracters — High usage paths and organizing structures in our memories.
You’re not using those so you remain in denial

Relationships — The history of interactions between two or more people
It’s a long history that you are unwilling to acknowledge

Trust — Relying on another.
There is none where there are attacks

Reciprocity — Mutual Exchange
None from your end, you consistently state that it is my homework to figure things out on my own.

Symmetrical — Balanced; based on equality and peers.
None of this when humiliation is rampant

Reciprocal altruism
Altruism?

Dialogue — Thinking together; conversation among two or more peers.
No dialogue is possible where there is aggression

Conflict — Contradictory goals.
My goals have been repeatedly clear: I am exploring not only cults but life and wish a dialogue. Your goal is to state that I am sick and not recognize any value in the six months of work present in these blogs.

Empathy — A deep appreciation for another’s situation and point of view.
None of this from you. I keep trying to establish a dialogue but it’s difficult with someone whose only statement is: you’re sick!

Respect — Acknowledging the dignity of another.
There is no respect when all one tells another person is that they are sick. When you go to a hospital to visit a friend, can’t you even say hello?

Apology — A sincere acknowledgement of responsibility, wrongdoing, and regret.
This is what you are in denial about.

Forgiveness — Choosing to overcome your desire for revenge
I’ve offered you my forgiveness various times but you can’t take it because you can’t acknowledge your wrongdoing and keep doing it.

Blame — Assigning responsibility for a loss.
You blame me for what happened- I’m not interested in blaming you, I’m interested in your assuming responsibility so that we can stop this childish situation and move on. It is very useful to analyze a decadent dialogue but I would rather do this without you so that I don’t have to keep pointing at you.

Shunning — Severing a relationship; mandated unilateral disassociation
Is this your goal?

Power — An asymmetrical dyadic relationship
You’ve stood on power all the time stating that you in any way have the authority over me to decree that I am sick although you show no evidence of that.

Dominance — The ability to harm another.
It was rampant in the fofblog. You were delighted dominating the conversation with what you knew was the support of the crowd. You acted like bullies do. Children at school that get together to harm another one. You’re in denial about that Ton, that is what you are unwilling to apologize for.

Violence — Causing harm to another.
There is violence in humiliation

Dominance Contest — A test or challenge to the present ordering of the dominance hierarchy
It feels like this is what we’ve been doing here and it’s not productive for us personally even if analyzing it in this level of detail might be productive to others. You say I’m sick, I say I’m not and we repeat this like ridiculous little children. Enough!

Submission — Yielding or acquiescing to power.
I think that is what you hate, that I won’t submit and I won’t.

Rebellion — Challenging established power; a dominance contest. Declining to submit.
It’s such a pleasure not to submit even if one gets banned! What would one be after submitting but a miserable human without self-respect? That is what makes people in power so sick, that they feed on people’s lack of self respect so they end up losing the little they could have ever had for their own self. That is what’s got our societies in this deadly train: that those in power are as sick as those they’ve submitted and like in cults they all tend to self-annihilate.

Passive Aggression — Seeking revenge by refusing to act. Hostile inaction.
There’s a lot of this in your consistent denial of my arguments, your behavior and the whole fofblog position that you haven’t even touched on.

Tone of Communication — styles of spoken communication used to convey the power stance of the relationship
This is done with the aggressive questioning and personal attacks

Tyranny — unrestrained exercise of power; abuse of authority.
They should add abuse of a position within a group as in bullying.

Oppression — The sustained humiliation of a group of people.
Or individual. This is what you’re doing with your consistent pointing at the fact that I am sick without acknowledging my work or anything else present in my behavior.

Whistleblowing — Communication intended to expose a wrongdoing by those in power

A “whistleblower”, yes, I like that label! We need to work against authoritarian power wherever it manifests itself.

There is an aspect that we haven’t yet touched on that seems relevant here which is that I don’t think we’d, you and I, would be indulging in this conversation unless we were both very lonely. The intensity of this going back and forth around the same silly pole is an expression of love or the need for connectedness, that can’t manifest itself in a positive way so it does it in a negative way. We are both needing contact and there is nothing sick about that, everyone needs contact. What is sick about it here is that we are barely moving. No matter how many arguments and facts I present, you dismiss everyone of them and sit on your statement that I am sick. O.K. I am sick and we’re not going to go anywhere so if that is the case this is going to be my last post on this topic. I really do enjoy what I am doing researching other topics and as lovely as actual contact with another person is, if we’re just going to sit here and masturbate around a dead topic, it is not only not enriching us but depleting us.

I hope you can find a sincere dialogue with the people around you if not here and wish you all the best.