Daily Cardiac-Tatyana

223. Elena - November 11, 2009 [Edit]

These pieces of Daily Cardiac are wonderfully revealing about what people call “NORMALITY” today. They are fascinating evidence of everything we are talking about but please continue to talk before I ruin it. I see you’ve also been reading this blog.

One aspect is what the FOFblog wanted of me: peaceful behavior without outbursts

As long as DC “BEHAVES” he can give out as much of his dogma as he likes without being able to ban him!!! Because they are trapped in their own dogma: as long as you behave normally, you’re normal!!! And now they all have to behave normal and not react violently against Daily Cardiac’s dominance of the situation!
He is brilliant in his own disfigured world which is one of the main lessons about this whole play: brilliance is not a sign of humaneness.

120. Daily Cardiac – November 10, 2009
Tatyana – 101:

“Dear DC,
since you answer selectively and not very often, I don’t have high expectations that you will answer me this time. But still I will try to ask just to make sure I understand what you are saying.

Are you saying that:

1. people posting here are lying intentionally to mask or avoid truth
2. they do it so because they lost interest in the Work (proof to which is that they are not looking for another teacher/school)
3. the truth is that RB is not abusing power or raping students, students are attracted to the power and status, and therefore there is no real evidence that FOF is not a school of awakening.

Is it what you are saying?”

Tatyana, to answer your questions:

“1. people posting here are lying intentionally to mask or avoid truth.”

A pronounced bias against something or someone, especially when it seems justifiable, prevents people from seeing the entire spectrum of information. Some of that information may, and often does, contain pertinent truths that runs counter to their beliefs. Extreme bias prevents the entire truth from being seen all the more. It’s not lying intentionally; the lie is told to one’s self and one believes it and harbors it as truth because one wants it to be true.

“2. they do it so because they lost interest in the Work (proof to which is that they are not looking for another teacher/school)”

This can be understood in a general way; if I really want something and I go off looking for it and let’s say I go in the wrong direction and find out that if I really want it I need to make an even greater effort to go back to where I started and start anew again. If that person gives up the search it would indicate that perhaps the yearning wasn’t great enough to overcome the denying force. Then another might continue on the search because he or she has to have what they are looking for and so they continue on even with the added obstacles to overcome. That shows a greater valuation, greater need, for whatever was being sought.

People here say the FoF is a destructive cult that they found and joined mistakenly while looking for a conscious school. Yet when they discover it’s not a school they don’t continue looking for a real school; the yearning seems to dissipate and that seems odd to me.

I stopped looking and stayed because I see the FoF as a real school, so I found what I was looking for but if I had seen it as a fraud I think I would have kept looking for a real school. I think it’s reasonable to assume others would also keep looking.

If people stop looking it means one of two things as I see it; either their need for a school wasn’t that great to begin with, (maybe the effort to remain was more than they anticipated) or deep down they understand the FoF is a school but they still can’t connect with it or value it.

If you have an important appointment in an unfamiliar city and you get on the wrong bus, do you forget about the appointment and maybe go on a picnic because the wrong bus let you off next to a park, or do try to find the right bus to take you where you initially wanted to go? I think doing the latter is a reasonable conclusion.

“3. the truth is that RB is not abusing power or raping students, students are attracted to the power and status, and therefore there is no real evidence that FOF is not a school of awakening.”

The way you worded it is a little like condensing two issues into one, but basically what you relay back is true. The truth is that Robert is not abusing anyone and obviously not raping anyone, either literally or figuratively.

The key element is free will. When anyone willingly agrees to something it is not abuse, it is consent. Even though the person is conflicted on the inside it is still consent because the ultimate decision is theirs to make. Now people consent to things all the time and later they see it was not what they really wanted or the result was not desirable and in that case there was a lesson to be learned and one learns it and moves on.

When one blames others for one’s own decisions it is a sure sign the lesson was not learned and then the lesson will be repeated until it is learned. Of course the lessons we are talking about are equally of a spiritual nature so the lessons may very well be carried over from one existence to the next.

I read an article recently about the British actor Ralph Fiennes. He was on an airplane and a female flight attendant ended up having sex with him in the plane’s lavatory. It was discovered and reported (maybe she left the drink trolley in the center isle) and she was immediately fired upon landing on the ground. She was interviewed later and asked if she regretted losing her job because she had sex with Ralph. She answered that she could always get another job but you don’t get too many opportunities to have sex with a movie star. Which at least is an accurate assessment of the odds involved.

Now imagine if one of the other passengers on the plane would have pressed the little button calling this “hostess” to his seat and proposed to her that they have sex in the lavatory since he found her to be extremely “hot.” By all definitions that would have been grounds for a sexual harassment charge, maybe a ban from the airline if the same lady reported it. The only difference in both scenarios is consent due to power or status (in this case the power of celebrity.)

And finally, Robert having sex with students is not evidence that the FoF is not a real school. The FoF not producing and promoting Presence would be proof it’s not a real school.

Reply

224. Elena - November 11, 2009 [Edit]

Great answer Tatyana!

And Daily Cardiac’s is no less good for his aims: keep them in the labyrinth of logic and play yo-yo with the issue for as long as he likes!

It’s wonderful how life corners us all! Corners us against our own made up barriers so that we are forced to push our selves out again!

130. Daily Cardiac – November 11, 2009
James Mclemore – 97:

First I would like to apologize to you for the dig I got in about Robert’s mother and the work book. You took a few shots at me in 97 and my first response was to send one back, but sarcasm is not ever the answer as far as I’m concerned. I’m not here to insult or argue or put anyone down.

My aim is to single out the issues that are most talked about on the blog, relate my understandings pertaining to other ways to think about them or interpret them, and then let the FoF critics respond to my comments or not respond. That is all.

So it’s very curious to me that you found not much to ponder in #80 because #80 is only about the issues dear to your heart. I would think that hearing new possible meanings for why things are the way they are in the FoF, the very issues you hold important, would be of interest to you. And responding to them would also interest you.

But that doesn’t appear to be the case. I can’t find one issue I pointed out that you addressed in your #97.

We already mentioned you said there is not much to ponder in #80. You also said this –

“You actually have no idea what people who post here are doing or have done.”

That’s really not the case. I think people talk about what is the most important to them and if anyone found a real school other than the FoF we would know about it.

What is talked about most is not how people are continuing on the spiritual path. The vast majority of the comments are telling what a bad person RB is over and over ad nauseum. So if people can only dwell on that, for me it’s a give away that there is not much else going on in their lives. If there were positive things going on in their lives people would be expressing it; after all is not that part of the solution, what someone finds that works?

Is the only thing that interests critics here saying the same thing every ex member has heard before and agrees on over and over, essentially nothing more than preaching to the choir?

You also said this –

“It may in part be that it is simply that many here have discovered that ‘truth’ does not exclusively inhabit any specific external anything, neither person nor place nor group of any kind, nor even any particular body of ideas. I am actually surprised that it seems you have not discovered this yet.”

This reminds me of ton’s worldview regarding objective vs subjective a page or so back. I would say truth exists externally from us as well as in us. It exists in some circles and is absent from other circles and in some circles it exists conditionally.

If it is in us it is in us because we have encountered it outside of us first and it imposed its will on us to follow it, embody it.

So you decided not to address the issues of #80 but go into what you thought I meant about this or that but I have addressed at least one of your comments head on.

Do you care to comment on the issue of whether RB has really abused anyone or not, based on reason, right interpretation of laws both man made or higher? And I’m not talking about repeating the litany of stories here, which I’ve pointed out does not amount to proof or evidence of anything, or maybe you would like to ponder the issue of why mere words don’t equate to truth, which was also touched on in detail in #80?

131. Tatyana – November 11, 2009
DC
“And finally, Robert having sex with students is not evidence that the FoF is not a real school. The FoF not producing and promoting Presence would be proof it’s not a real school.”

If I use your logic, then nothing can be evidence that FOF is not a real school as long as it is producing and promoting Presence. Right? From this point not only Robert having sex with students is not evidence, but even if he was raping them and abusing power wouldn’t be evidence? As long as FOF producing and promoting Presence. Not even a murder would be evidence! Is this what you believe?