Continuation of Ton’s post and answer
Ton: the question here is how can your one-way equation work the other way… how does the inner life of the individual give form to and ‘sculpt’ the outside ? i would say that only through the development of individuality is this a possibility… nothing changes in a world where the sheep believe so strongly in a conformist mantra like “we are one.”
Elena: I would thoroughly agree with you if we take into consideration what I said about We are One before that. There has to be an individual or an identity PRESENT for there to be an ACT and not simply a repetition of the same forms but there is a huge difference when that happens in relation to what happened before. The processes are upside down and backwards to each other. In the first process that we’ve been talking about in which the individual is a passive entity being molded by the outside world there are various phases that would need to be studied more carefully and some of them are legitimate and therefore positive but if the process is not overcome at the right time then it transforms into an illegitimate process with descending, decaying characteristics and the individual turns against his own self and the society in which he or she live. “Turns against” in the sense that they enter an involuting rather than an evoluting process. Something worth noticing about this phase is that the outside world is active and the individual is passive. The individual is being molded and hardly has an effect on the forces that mold him or her. When the individual separates from the particular group or “smaller unit” or “immediate organism” that he or she initially belonged to, there is a “change”. As I write about this it is somewhat shocking to me how similar the process of reproduction is: Two forces unite and create a whole new being within one of the beings that then separates from it and develops his and her own life. It’s surprising to me that our “life”, “socio-cultural life” moves very much under the same patterns or could we actually call them laws? But let’s not deviate from the point. I was saying that it is worth noticing that the outside world is active and the individual passive but the perception the individual has of the phenomenon is very much of being tremendously active. It is probably the process of Growth as conceived in the System. The individual feels him and herself very active towards the world but is in fact essentially passive in that he and she are not yet mature or “individuated” enough to have become active in the true sense of the term. The “Wold” ACTS on them and they allow for its action like a plant growing into flower.
But once the flower is open and has the capacity to reproduce itself and form new flowers, once the individual is mature enough to act legitimately, THEN we can talk about an “individual” with “identity”. It’s interesting that we can only then say that there actually is an identity because before that there is “identification” but not identity.
Again, here it doesn’t mean that a human being is not a sacred being from the moment they are born but that to be in essence is different as to having developed a full spirit.
Back to the point again. The outside world is active and the individual passive even though they feel strongly active in the process of growth. There is a ‘budding’ I in its full capacity struggling to become like a sperm trying to reach the ovum but what actually determines the outcome is the state of the organism in which all that is taking place: the womb, the society in which the individual is meant to develop.
When the individual matures into consciousness of the Whole, when they become mature enough not only to reproduce physically but to Act out the consciousness of their self that includes the consciousness of everything around them: people as much as nature and within both their multiple dimensions, what is interesting to observe is that the interaction between the individual and the “world” that surrounds them becomes “objective”. The world has an “objective” effect on the mature identity and the mature identity has an objective effect on the world it lives itself out in. Perhaps I would define subjectivity as having an effect in only one dimension but objectivity as having an effect in all dimensions. The power of an objective act is that it permeates the being as much as the beings around it while a subjective act basically affects the individual involved and maintains the inertia of the status quo. No innovation, creation or originality is possible and the repetition becomes vicious over time. While repetition tends to strengthen the will for some time, if no progress accompanies it, it tends to stifle and involute the process._____________
Ton: elena: “We are all living out a hierarchic sovereignty in which we act out our superiority towards others. We struggle to put others down so as to float above, mostly because we are ourselves so tremendously depressed in a world that values nobody.”
yes elena, i couldn’t agree more… i’m glad that you’re learning to see yourself through our interactions.
Elena: Your misinterpretation of my affirmations and your need to give your self credits that you don’t have reveal your state much more than my self. What I mean with that affirmation is that the millions of people committing suicide, the millions being killed like cockroaches the world over reveal the tremendous depression of our selves as human beings. We are not conscious of our humanity and are killing each other like rats within nations and internationally. The puffed up world in which you seem to limit your existence to might no be aware of the abundant crime that is happening today but if you only dared to look beyond the charismatic prism that you seem to enjoy to stand up and demeanor the few people that you do interact with without ever seriously putting an effort to add something of value, you might actually begin to live your life out with love._____________________
Ton: while you’re on the subject, here is an author i can recommend:
http://danielgoleman.info/
‘Here at The Corporation, we believe in working hard, and productivity. But we also believe in team. Because it was The Corporation that first recognized how profitable society could be if we all forgot ourselves and just worked together. Working together has provided us with jobs and happiness…a world built on (war and) peace… (holding up a piece of plastic) And plastic…where everything is wonderful and…above all… Magic! We’ve got great things in store for the future, because the corporate way is THE way…but don’t take my word for it, just listen to this… ‘
Visioneers
Elena: This last part seems like more of what you actually believe in but pretend to be superior to. What would be interesting about studying that is realizing how they use the same principles but against themselves and others but you don’t realize that. You think that pointing a finger at them and thinking you are better makes you greater but it only reveals the same unconscious process that they are eagerly indulging in.
I sincerely thank you for your participation. It is unfortunate that you stand so far apart and still have to resort to such lowlessness to address me. It is not only that you should treat me like a monarch because I am a legitimate human being, it is that when we are unable to treat others like that, we are ourselves far below our own humaneness and keep each other in degenerative processes. This has of course become “normal” for you, as you prove in the next post in which making fun of it and demeanoring me is understood as “humor” but that humor is only a buffer disguising the aggression.
We are One and I thank you for the friction with which you enter my world so that I learn to better acknowledge and impregnate my self with your suffering. If I treat you anything else than a monarch, that is, a legitimate human being, then I am myself far from achieving the consciousness that I am after. Democracy is the social realization of our selves as human beings, each monarchs in a society in which no one enslaves or mistreats anyone else.
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