It’s good to see the fofblog ticking again with things that matter:
237. No Kid – March 22, 2010
@veramente: Respectfully, I *don’t* want it to fall down. At least not yet. I was pretty badly abused – physically, emotionally, spiritually and sexually – by these people (you people?) as a child. Not a “child” in his mid-20s…a prepubescent *actual* bald-pubed child. If the FoF falls, I may well become responsible for the elderly parent who cheerfully turned me over to the care of some serious nut-jobs, and does not to this day acknowledge any culpability. That is completely unacceptable to me. Would it be acceptable to you? If this happens, I have no idea what I will do, or what I can do. Will you – will any of you – step up to the plate on this? I don’t expect you to. Frankly, I expect nothing from anyone ever associated with this organization. That is not “attitude” – it is experience. I’m no fan of the FoF. I am also…No Kid.
@veramente: Respectfully, I *don’t* want it to fall down. At least not yet. I was pretty badly abused – physically, emotionally, spiritually and sexually – by these people (you people?) as a child. Not a “child” in his mid-20s…a prepubescent *actual* bald-pubed child. If the FoF falls, I may well become responsible for the elderly parent who cheerfully turned me over to the care of some serious nut-jobs, and does not to this day acknowledge any culpability. That is completely unacceptable to me. Would it be acceptable to you? If this happens, I have no idea what I will do, or what I can do. Will you – will any of you – step up to the plate on this? I don’t expect you to. Frankly, I expect nothing from anyone ever associated with this organization. That is not “attitude” – it is experience. I’m no fan of the FoF. I am also…No Kid.
238. Bares Reposting – March 22, 2010
History of: No Kid postings plus some comments (Please excuse the long post.):
History of: No Kid postings plus some comments (Please excuse the long post.):
8/328 No Kid Says:
May 8th, 2007 at 4:08 am
May 8th, 2007 at 4:08 am
In post 8/38, Lady B writes:
“At Isis, children are the last concern. In fact, a friend who doesn’t have children told me, “I think that Isis needs an orphanage.” I was shocked and offended. (snip) Someone said — I wish I could remember who — that you can see the level of civilization in a country by looking at the way they treat children and old people. Elena, you’re right: I don’t recognize the same Ark that I boarded 20 years old.”
Response:
There was no golden age before the fall, but there was once an orphanage of sorts…It was called the kid’s house.
It was a double wide pre-fab installed at the base of the long drive near the entrance the farm, Via del
Sol. Kids who hadn’t been given away lived there. The big house was about a mile up the road and the barn, which later became the auto shop, was at about the half-way point. The kids were allowed as far as the barn to work milking the cows and such, but were forbidden to go further. We did of course, steering
clear of the adults, roaming the woods, having fun and being kids. Food was scarce. People were supposed to come take care of us, bring food and such and sometimes did, but often did not. Twelve kids lived there. Another dozen came on weekends. sometimes bringing snacks, and a lively pomegranate-centered economy developed. Sometimes we’d pool money, walk to Oregon House store and buy loaves of bread to divide.
A certain male student used to come around a lot. The older kids were suspicious of him and poked fun behind his back, but the youngest ones, who felt their parent’s absence more acutely, seemed to take comfort in his attention. Cold water showers in winter: “Arctic Regions!” was a running joke. You’d shout it
out when showering and everybody would laugh.
Sol. Kids who hadn’t been given away lived there. The big house was about a mile up the road and the barn, which later became the auto shop, was at about the half-way point. The kids were allowed as far as the barn to work milking the cows and such, but were forbidden to go further. We did of course, steering
clear of the adults, roaming the woods, having fun and being kids. Food was scarce. People were supposed to come take care of us, bring food and such and sometimes did, but often did not. Twelve kids lived there. Another dozen came on weekends. sometimes bringing snacks, and a lively pomegranate-centered economy developed. Sometimes we’d pool money, walk to Oregon House store and buy loaves of bread to divide.
A certain male student used to come around a lot. The older kids were suspicious of him and poked fun behind his back, but the youngest ones, who felt their parent’s absence more acutely, seemed to take comfort in his attention. Cold water showers in winter: “Arctic Regions!” was a running joke. You’d shout it
out when showering and everybody would laugh.
My association with the FoF continued until 1980, most of that time as a student. I was a free worker then on salary. and know hard work, long hours and little sleep. My education was spotty, but I have since corrected that. Incongruous gaps remain. My upbringing was remarkable: both bizarre and traumatic, but also instructional, and for me, foundational. In fellowship
language: the FoF was my influence B. I now take the Buddha’s advise and follow my own path. The fellowship broke me…repeatedly over many years but I survived
and eventually grew strong. Life is good.
language: the FoF was my influence B. I now take the Buddha’s advise and follow my own path. The fellowship broke me…repeatedly over many years but I survived
and eventually grew strong. Life is good.
Peace to Every One and best as All Ways.
I bear no one ill will.
And I am not naive.
And I am not naive.
I am
No Kid
No Kid
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
27/544 on December 31, 2007 at 8:53 pm No Kid:
Interesting that the subject of kids is up again. Probably not for long. It seems that usually when it is brought up it dies pretty fast…
#359 Associated Press wrote:
“If there is abuse of the under aged or the young in the Fellowship of Friends community, it is likely indirect and mostly due to neglect. Remember, a person must be 18, or older, to be a member of the Fellowship of Friends.”
Please don’t underestimate the effect of neglect. Also, it was not always the case that a member had to be 18. At first, it was 16. Then there was a single exception, an 11 year old. Other young adolescents followed, and eventually there were about a dozen minor members. This was only a phase. But at this time, at the property, 14-18 hour work days substituted for education for the very few kids who lived there. This is not great for rapidly growing bodies, and in the case that I can speak to, permanent, lifelong physical damage was one result.
Also, it is not necessary for a minor to be a member to be abused. A very long time ago, in the first couple of years, children on the property lived separately from the adults and adult members would come around occassionally with food. Not daily. Parents came sometimes, but the most frequent visitor was a man who just liked children a lot. The older kids (8-14) suspected what he was about and mostly shunned him. The little ones (3-6) missed their parents much harder and would crawl all over this friendly man who brought food, and would scream if the older ones tried to separate them. That is ancient history, but I don’t see why non-member status would protect today’s kids any more than it protected the kids in the 1970’s.
I have only posted here once before, (8/328) to test the water, and getting no interest, I went back to listening. I only check in once in a while to see if the conversation has taken any new path. Sometimes there has been some change, but it is remarkable how much of the same comes back. I suppose that is what this blog group most needs to process. Your issues tend to be quite different from mine and I tend to find I have more in common with others who were raised in different cults than I have with adults who joined on their own volition.
Here, there is of course lots of interest in young men’s sexual experiences, and not much about the experiences of former or current kids. One thing that always surprises me and that comes up over and over again is the idea that adults in their 20s are actually “children.”
#527 Rain wrote:
“Some have made a distinction between men and children. But remember, these men are in a state of childhood…”
“Some have made a distinction between men and children. But remember, these men are in a state of childhood…”
Pleeease…that is just mind-boggling in its silliness. There is no equivalence between an 6 year old child and a 26 year old man, unless that man is profoundly brain-damaged or severely retarded. But I suppose that denial does motivate. I am not trying to belittle the terrible trauma of getting unwanted head, but from my POV, and compared to some of what I and some of the *actual* children grew up with, poolside fellatio while lounging in Armani would have been really really great.
Perhaps many who post here had children of their own and don’t want to think about what they may have exposed them to. It is certainly a lot easier to think and talk about the ways in which others mistreat us than the ways in which we mistreat others…the grand nobility of victimhood. To those few of you who have actually accepted some degree of culpability, thank you. I do not think that the FoF is one evil man plus thousands of innocent lambs. The abuse is well-distributed and I suspect that almost everyone involved is culpable in one way or another…and I include myself in that. We let the kid-lover play with the toddlers so that they would be quiet and he would leave us alone. I am not innocent, and I very much doubt that most of you are either.
BTW: I am not trying to bash anyone with information that he or she does not want or to hear, or force you to accept some degree of responsibility for your lives and your interactions with others. However, I found that, for myself, I started to heal from the substantial damage inflicted by this fellowship of “friends” when I *stopped* thinking of myself as a victim and began to take back my own agency. That included acknowledging my own part. Just an idea. Use it or not.
I am not naive to the wrongdoing of others…
…and I am not innocent of it myself.
And I am also – No Kid.
…and I am not innocent of it myself.
And I am also – No Kid.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Some comments to No Kid:
28/1 on January 6, 2008 at 8:29 pm waskathleenw:
544 No Kid
No Kid, despite the lack of response to your part 8 post, I wish you would post more often and provide more details if you feel comfortable doing so.
Current students, prospective students, newspaper reporters and who knows who else are reading this blog. It’s important for the stories to be shared — more than once if posted several pages back. It’s a daunting task for someone new to read 27 pages of history.
Thank you!
- – – – – -
28/4 on January 6, 2008 at 10:45 pm lauralupa:
544 No kid
Yes No kid, please write down your stories, I think it would be very good to learn more about the point of view of the children. I myself have mothered three girls during my eight years living at Renaissance. But it was the late 80s-early 90s, and in that period things were easier, if not easy, for parents and their children.
Not much was ever said to me, either in public or in my circle of friends, about the families situation early years. I just learned quite a few things from your post. We were in fact in the dark about a lot of things that had happened before (or that were happening at the time, for that matter). I knew that some (at the time, it seemed to me that there were only a handful) of the students had abandoned their offspring, but no details were offered (remember? we were not supposed to talk about our measly personal matters). I mostly had heard of such stories from students who had subsequently retrieved their children. Maybe the others were too ashamed to talk about it, I don’t know. It all sounded so impersonal, it’s weird to think about it right now. It was all for the good of the school! And no one ever told me anything about the abortions and hysterectomies, or most of the various horrors slowly coming to light through the blog…
The pain was definitely deeply buried behind self control, self denial and self satisfied smiles…
Yes No kid, please write down your stories, I think it would be very good to learn more about the point of view of the children. I myself have mothered three girls during my eight years living at Renaissance. But it was the late 80s-early 90s, and in that period things were easier, if not easy, for parents and their children.
Not much was ever said to me, either in public or in my circle of friends, about the families situation early years. I just learned quite a few things from your post. We were in fact in the dark about a lot of things that had happened before (or that were happening at the time, for that matter). I knew that some (at the time, it seemed to me that there were only a handful) of the students had abandoned their offspring, but no details were offered (remember? we were not supposed to talk about our measly personal matters). I mostly had heard of such stories from students who had subsequently retrieved their children. Maybe the others were too ashamed to talk about it, I don’t know. It all sounded so impersonal, it’s weird to think about it right now. It was all for the good of the school! And no one ever told me anything about the abortions and hysterectomies, or most of the various horrors slowly coming to light through the blog…
The pain was definitely deeply buried behind self control, self denial and self satisfied smiles…
- – – – – -
28/8 on January 7, 2008 at 3:31 am veronicapoe:
544/No Kid
I for one am very interested in your experiences. If you are interested in writing to me privately to tell me about them I am interested in listening.
veronicapoe (at) gmail (dot) com
- – – – – -
28/12 on January 7, 2008 at 5:50 am Associated Press:
Thank you [No Kid] for your appearance here and your posting. You do elicit thought and emotion as well as presence.
When I wrote:
“If there is abuse of the under aged or the young in the Fellowship of Friends community, it is likely indirect and mostly due to neglect. Remember, a person must be 18, or older, to be a member of the Fellowship of Friends.”
I was speaking in generalities and of more recent history of the Fellowship of Friends. I was also speaking in the context at the times on the blog, which was about legalities, if memory serves me correctly. So, thank you for the greater detail. Here is some more detail:
There certainly were both upsides and downsides to circumstances for children of Fellowship members. Some might say that there was a lot of adverse conditions for raising children – some worthy even of intervention by child protective services (which, BTW, could even be worse for the children). One could start with the fact that student number 2 (Robert being student number 1, although he probably long ago stopped thinking of himself as a student, maybe not). That was the woman that Robert purportedly had sex with in order to establish a certain ‘bond’ which could go beyond the normal teacher/student relationship bond. That woman was married at the time and had children. This ‘conscious teacher’ action may have led to the marriage having difficulties, to say the least. Family life for those children in that family was not necessarily ideal prior to said marriage but it was family life of some kind once there was a marriage. Then the disruption from FoF took place and at least one of the children, still under age, became perhaps the first FoF ‘orphan.’ The only family that child had left was the Fellowship of Friends, by proxy. Do you see any scruples (scruples: an uneasy feeling arising from conscience or principle that tends to hinder action) at work around here? Or, do you see screw pulls?
[The next generation that the above child produced reflected the valuation for family life that they did not have. The only real way that seemed possible for them to have stability of family life was to isolate themselves from the undesired ‘influences’ of you-know-who and eventually leave the Fellowship.]
Children, generally speaking, were marginalised and shunned from the beginning of the school (and likely from the beginning of their lives). They were too much trouble, too uncontrollable, and a distraction from the aim of creating a new civilisation and building an ark – as we were told by the Teacher. So, if you did not have any, then do not have any. And, if you did have any, they should be out-of-sight and out-of-mind. Also, as mentioned elsewhere on this blog, there were other solutions to the child problem. But, eventually, there was a place for the children and a creation of The Lewis Carroll School. Also, worthy of mention, is the family that Robert dotes upon and is the godfather to at least one of the children – which means an uneasy life of employment and housing for life supplied under Robert’s direction. (I would not wish that on my worst enemy. But, there it is.) It certainly makes it look like Robert is pro-family in that sense, doesn’t it? In that community, nothing miraculous seems to happen unless Robert wills it to happen.
One problem, that I was aware of, was one of children growing up in an overly speciallised environment. In particular, there was more development of essence and not so much development of personality. This could present a problem when the children had to go and live in the general scope of life on the planet. They would not be prepared. Ouch!
Another problem was the overly licentious life style that existed from the leader which spread to other Fellowship members. They thought/felt, if Robert can do whatever he wanted, well so can I. There were acts of sexual abuse of children that repeatedly would appear on the rumor mill – the ‘alternate grapevine,’ if you will. You just cannot stop the hidden communication channels. Were they more than happened in the general scope of life? I do not know. But some children were very screwed up, not only because they may have been abused this way directly, but also because they knew what was going on in the white mansion on the hill.
Add to these the problem created by the ‘no contact with former members exercise.’ Think about the disruption that would create for familial relations if one or the other in a marriage chose to leave the Fellowship when children are involved; estrangement likely, as a minimum.
But eventually there was the Buzbee incident in the 1990’s. This has been mentioned before on the blog, so, I will be brief with it. A child of a Fellowship member, while under age, was persuaded to having sex with Robert Burton, allegedly. I say allegedly, because the legal action that developed was settled out-of-court. Since that time, a strict adherence to the age requirement was implemented so as to filter and prevent such an ‘accident’ from happening. At least it looks good on paper. What actually may have happened, and what is still happening, could be any body’s guess.
Still Fellowship members are offering up, or being asked to offer up, their offspring, underage or not, to the designed purposes of the so called ‘conscious being’ who knows better what is good for all.
So, in short, as I said in 27/359:
‘There is more likely abuse of the elderly, the weak, the vulnerable, the ill and the infirm, as they can be members, and be deprived of their human rights and dignity. This seems to happen habitually in the power structure of the Fellowship of Friends, right from the man at the top (read: Robert Burton) and as a trickle down from the top type behaviour imitated by others. Just read the postings of Elena for example. It is not always the case, though.’
According to this post:
on January 5, 2008 at 11:21 pm
27/604 rich wrote:
27/604 rich wrote:
Re: 601 Nuthead
So glad you left this cult. For whatever reason. This particular cult leader, in my opinion, in the main, shortens a persons life span. Now whatever teaching you might find in the future check the following before anything else. How are the elderly treated? Are there any children, if so ,are they happy? Best yardstick you could ever use. In my opinion, for whatever reason, your action was correct.
So glad you left this cult. For whatever reason. This particular cult leader, in my opinion, in the main, shortens a persons life span. Now whatever teaching you might find in the future check the following before anything else. How are the elderly treated? Are there any children, if so ,are they happy? Best yardstick you could ever use. In my opinion, for whatever reason, your action was correct.
I agree and I recommend that you evaluate the society you live in on the basis of how it manages affairs of the elderly, the weak, the vulnerable, the ill and the infirm. Are they all respected? Are their human rights and dignity preserved? In what manner? Especially in the contemplation of: There, but for the grace of God, go I. Or, in another sense: That IS me and the only separation from me, that might exist, is in my mind.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
28/39 on January 7, 2008 at 11:11 pm No Kid:
Hello, Bloggers.
waskathleenw wrote:
“No Kid…I wish you would post more often and provide more details if you feel comfortable doing so…Current students, prospective students, newspaper reporters and who knows who else are reading this blog. It’s important for the stories to be shared…”
“No Kid…I wish you would post more often and provide more details if you feel comfortable doing so…Current students, prospective students, newspaper reporters and who knows who else are reading this blog. It’s important for the stories to be shared…”
zoecan1 wrote:
“No Kid- Please stay and share. You are so very important too. I have only been here a few weeks and feel comfortable. Soon you will be too.”
“No Kid- Please stay and share. You are so very important too. I have only been here a few weeks and feel comfortable. Soon you will be too.”
No Kid responds:
Thank you, Kathleen, Zoe. I will probably pop around from time to time. Who knows, I could become a “regular.” Stranger things have *certainly* happened! I do in fact have a great deal of ambivalence about posting here. And I have no interest *whatsoever* with talking to the press at this time. My personal comfort actually has little to do with my reluctance, but thank you for considering it. One thing about being raised in the fellowship is that I have a very high tolerance for discomfort. Scar tissue is a lot tougher than pristine baby skin! My reluctance has more to do with potential reprecussions against elderly relatives. I will not repay their neglect of my best intersts with the same. I am better than that. If their well-being is ever threatened, *that* is when I will consider activating my considerable political and press connections. Failing that, I will allow entropy to do what it does best – with no help from me. Everything decays eventually.
Thank you, Kathleen, Zoe. I will probably pop around from time to time. Who knows, I could become a “regular.” Stranger things have *certainly* happened! I do in fact have a great deal of ambivalence about posting here. And I have no interest *whatsoever* with talking to the press at this time. My personal comfort actually has little to do with my reluctance, but thank you for considering it. One thing about being raised in the fellowship is that I have a very high tolerance for discomfort. Scar tissue is a lot tougher than pristine baby skin! My reluctance has more to do with potential reprecussions against elderly relatives. I will not repay their neglect of my best intersts with the same. I am better than that. If their well-being is ever threatened, *that* is when I will consider activating my considerable political and press connections. Failing that, I will allow entropy to do what it does best – with no help from me. Everything decays eventually.
Lauralupa wrote:
“Yes No kid, please write down your stories, I think it would be very good to learn more about the point of view of the children.”
“Yes No kid, please write down your stories, I think it would be very good to learn more about the point of view of the children.”
No Kid responds:
I won’t be posting the best of stories (the worst of stories) here. They are my ace up the sleeve in case I ever need to use them strategically.
I won’t be posting the best of stories (the worst of stories) here. They are my ace up the sleeve in case I ever need to use them strategically.
Lauralupa wrote further:
“I knew that some (at the time, it seemed to me that there were only a handful) of the students had abandoned their offspring…”
“I knew that some (at the time, it seemed to me that there were only a handful) of the students had abandoned their offspring…”
No Kid responds:
Well… “abandoned” can cover a wide range of actions. As far as I know, kids were not just dropped off on the side of road with a blanky and a P&J sandwich. Students *were* encouraged to get rid of the kids, though. Generally this meant they were sent to live with friends or relatives. In retrospect, given a choice, I would rather have been sent away. There was a nice family who probably would have taken me. But…ancient history.
Well… “abandoned” can cover a wide range of actions. As far as I know, kids were not just dropped off on the side of road with a blanky and a P&J sandwich. Students *were* encouraged to get rid of the kids, though. Generally this meant they were sent to live with friends or relatives. In retrospect, given a choice, I would rather have been sent away. There was a nice family who probably would have taken me. But…ancient history.
Mishaba7 wrote:
(about students who cut themselves off from their families of origin) “Have you apologized to your mother lately?”
(about students who cut themselves off from their families of origin) “Have you apologized to your mother lately?”
No Kid responds:
Good question. Obviously I would add: “Have you apologized to your children lately?”
Good question. Obviously I would add: “Have you apologized to your children lately?”
veronicapoe wrote:
“I for one am very interested in your experiences. If you are interested in writing to me privately to tell me about them I am interested in listening.”
“I for one am very interested in your experiences. If you are interested in writing to me privately to tell me about them I am interested in listening.”
No Kid responds:
Thank you, Veronica. I will consider it.
Thank you, Veronica. I will consider it.
Associated Press wrote:
“Thank you for your appearance here and your posting. You do elicit thought and emotion as well as presence.”
“Thank you for your appearance here and your posting. You do elicit thought and emotion as well as presence.”
No Kid responds:
Thank you, AP.
Thank you, AP.
Associated Press further wrote:
“…That woman was married at the time and had children…and at least one of the children, still under age, became perhaps the first FoF ‘orphan.’”
“…That woman was married at the time and had children…and at least one of the children, still under age, became perhaps the first FoF ‘orphan.’”
No Kid responds:
Yes. I knew that woman, knew her husband, knew the child. I won’t say anything further out of respect for the privacy of others.
Yes. I knew that woman, knew her husband, knew the child. I won’t say anything further out of respect for the privacy of others.
Associated Press further wrote:
Do you see any scruples (scruples: an uneasy feeling arising from conscience or principle that tends to hinder action) at work around here? Or, do you see screw pulls?
Do you see any scruples (scruples: an uneasy feeling arising from conscience or principle that tends to hinder action) at work around here? Or, do you see screw pulls?
No Kid responds:
Nice pun, AP. I don’t quite understand the question, though. Do you mean scruples “here” on this blog or “here” in that history?
Nice pun, AP. I don’t quite understand the question, though. Do you mean scruples “here” on this blog or “here” in that history?
Associated Press further wrote:
“Children, generally speaking, were marginalised and shunned from the beginning of the school (and likely from the beginning of their lives). They were too much trouble, too uncontrollable…”
“Children, generally speaking, were marginalised and shunned from the beginning of the school (and likely from the beginning of their lives). They were too much trouble, too uncontrollable…”
No Kid responds:
Uncontrollable and trouble…I certainly was! It eventually resulted in my being put out on the street in the middle of the night in the rain with only the clothing I was wearing. That was lots of fun. It was a good thing that I had been mixing with outsiders. That bit of disobedience kept the rain off my head on subsequent evenings. And, of course, when one is a relatively attractive and personable teenager, there are always older men who are happy to provide the basics of life in exchange for the luxuries of young flesh. I am not complaining about that, BTW. My sugar-Daddies probably saved my life and I am grateful to them for that.
Uncontrollable and trouble…I certainly was! It eventually resulted in my being put out on the street in the middle of the night in the rain with only the clothing I was wearing. That was lots of fun. It was a good thing that I had been mixing with outsiders. That bit of disobedience kept the rain off my head on subsequent evenings. And, of course, when one is a relatively attractive and personable teenager, there are always older men who are happy to provide the basics of life in exchange for the luxuries of young flesh. I am not complaining about that, BTW. My sugar-Daddies probably saved my life and I am grateful to them for that.
Associated Press further wrote:
“…the children had to go and live in the general scope of life on the planet. They would not be prepared. Ouch!”
“…the children had to go and live in the general scope of life on the planet. They would not be prepared. Ouch!”
No Kid responds:
Not prepared…well THAT is an understatement!
Not prepared…well THAT is an understatement!
Associated Press further wrote:
“…There were acts of sexual abuse of children that repeatedly would appear on the rumor mill – the ‘alternate grapevine,’ if you will. You just cannot stop the hidden communication channels…”
“…There were acts of sexual abuse of children that repeatedly would appear on the rumor mill – the ‘alternate grapevine,’ if you will. You just cannot stop the hidden communication channels…”
No Kid responds:
I have enormous respect for hidden communication channels. I think that one of the reasons that gossip is so disparaged (not only in the fellowship, but in most other structured social groupings) is that it is generally the channel through which those without direct access to power and to conventional channels of communication are able to share information about what kinds of people are to be found in that structure. That is obviously very threatening to those who in pursuit of personal and political power would control all communications. One of the first things any tyrant does is seize control of communications. Grab their presses and their minds will follow…
I have enormous respect for hidden communication channels. I think that one of the reasons that gossip is so disparaged (not only in the fellowship, but in most other structured social groupings) is that it is generally the channel through which those without direct access to power and to conventional channels of communication are able to share information about what kinds of people are to be found in that structure. That is obviously very threatening to those who in pursuit of personal and political power would control all communications. One of the first things any tyrant does is seize control of communications. Grab their presses and their minds will follow…
Best to All.
I am, No Kid.
I am, No Kid.
28/40 on January 7, 2008 at 11:20 pm No Kid:
Bloggers:
A small correction…
“My personal comfort actually has little to do with my reluctance, but thank you for considering it.”
should read:
My reluctance actually has little to do with my personal comfort, but thank you for considering it.
I am,
No Kid.
No Kid.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Some comments to No Kid:
28/44 on January 8, 2008 at 5:16 am Associated Press:
. . .
No Kid, I was kidding when I ask, ‘Do you see any scruples?’ – because the circumstances described (in the history of the
Fellowship of Friends described) show fairly significantly that there was a lack of scruples operating and instead there was a ’screw pulls’ play being acted out. Or, in other words, the hidden agenda was to satisfy the lower self aim(s) of getting sex (and lots of other things like money, labor, devotion, loyalty, dependence, etc.) from the participant(s) under the guise of doing something else – like spiritual pursuits or awakening. Or, more simply, the underlying purpose frequently is: how to screw over the seekers that have come to find the Fellowship of Friends, rather than to deliver the goods they claim is their purpose. Classic ‘bait and switch’ kind of game.
Fellowship of Friends described) show fairly significantly that there was a lack of scruples operating and instead there was a ’screw pulls’ play being acted out. Or, in other words, the hidden agenda was to satisfy the lower self aim(s) of getting sex (and lots of other things like money, labor, devotion, loyalty, dependence, etc.) from the participant(s) under the guise of doing something else – like spiritual pursuits or awakening. Or, more simply, the underlying purpose frequently is: how to screw over the seekers that have come to find the Fellowship of Friends, rather than to deliver the goods they claim is their purpose. Classic ‘bait and switch’ kind of game.
The blog has been very well managed, and with scruples, by the Esoteric Sheik of Inner Confusion and much thanks goes to such a person for their continued efforts and time.
- – – – – -
28/66 on January 9, 2008 at 5:54 am Pamela Lichtenwalner:
39 No kid
I have been reading the postings and I am fairly speechless. I see love and pain and growth and anger and fun and humor and, for most of you, deep compassion and friendship with one another. And, as a group, you are quite the wordsmiths ….. the books, plays, music and poems that will come from some of you ………
Now, back to a topic that I have brought up before and I am responding somewhat to No Kid.
I am wondering how any of you that left in adolescence, without your parents’ or your families’ support, survived? (Yes, there is a sociologist [and others] who is wondering what the counties could do to assist kids leaving such groups but first the professionals need to know just what the needs are.) What about the younger kids? Did they, while in the group, have adults who looked after them, have a child-centered schedule of good meals, school, play-time, medical care, being able to play sports with kids not involved with “FofF” and just plain kid fun? Do the high-school-aged kids get an education to prepare them for college or university or further trade/arts education? What is a day in the life of a kid like?
Someone once said, “The measure of a society is how the members care for the most vulnerable.” In a previous post here, someone alluded to a similar thought. So, I am just asking. If anyone wants to contact me to contact them privately, that is fine. I am neither a journalist nor a writer nor an attorney. Just a teacher.
I have been reading the postings and I am fairly speechless. I see love and pain and growth and anger and fun and humor and, for most of you, deep compassion and friendship with one another. And, as a group, you are quite the wordsmiths ….. the books, plays, music and poems that will come from some of you ………
Now, back to a topic that I have brought up before and I am responding somewhat to No Kid.
I am wondering how any of you that left in adolescence, without your parents’ or your families’ support, survived? (Yes, there is a sociologist [and others] who is wondering what the counties could do to assist kids leaving such groups but first the professionals need to know just what the needs are.) What about the younger kids? Did they, while in the group, have adults who looked after them, have a child-centered schedule of good meals, school, play-time, medical care, being able to play sports with kids not involved with “FofF” and just plain kid fun? Do the high-school-aged kids get an education to prepare them for college or university or further trade/arts education? What is a day in the life of a kid like?
Someone once said, “The measure of a society is how the members care for the most vulnerable.” In a previous post here, someone alluded to a similar thought. So, I am just asking. If anyone wants to contact me to contact them privately, that is fine. I am neither a journalist nor a writer nor an attorney. Just a teacher.
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28/158 on January 11, 2008 at 6:35 am Mishaba7:
Dear No Kid,
I’m glad you found a way to save yourself and are now saving the savable, one kid at a time. Building a life where you are now well-respected, well-connected, and most of all well-loved, is a huge accomplishment for anyone, but you had to transcend so much hell to get there. I have deep respect for your success.
I’m glad you found a way to save yourself and are now saving the savable, one kid at a time. Building a life where you are now well-respected, well-connected, and most of all well-loved, is a huge accomplishment for anyone, but you had to transcend so much hell to get there. I have deep respect for your success.
After my horrific clash with the fof, I went to teach in the ghetto. I, too, find meaning in saving one kid at a time. I found that the ghetto is not just full of ugliness, one can find beauty and music, dance and art, and kindness and love there. Oh, yes, and also depraved predatory sex, vanity, posturing, drugs and aggression, a gang pecking order, and a social viciousness. But, in reading the blog and in having contact with an fof teaching house, those things were evident there also. Angels and demons can be found anywhere and the way they are dressed, the words that are used, the music that is listened to don’t determine what they are, their treatment of others does.
Sincerely.
Sincerely.
[More on page 28.]
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66/110 No Kid – February 25, 2009:
Hello.
This is mainly to Andrew. Others take what you will.
I follow this blog from time to time. I was involved in the Fellowship as a child, for ten years, between 1970-1980, and was put out on the street as a teen for not flying quite right. I am referencing post #61, which the moderator kindly re-posted:
Andrew:
Has anyone who has a mind that they can still use, tell me what happened to your kids while you were in this cult?
Has anyone who has a mind that they can still use, tell me what happened to your kids while you were in this cult?
Wildz:
Yes, Andrew, I can. I joined the Fellowship in 1978 before I had children. I married in 1979; I had my first child in 1982. (snip) also was witness to the neglect of children by their parents in Oregon House.
Yes, Andrew, I can. I joined the Fellowship in 1978 before I had children. I married in 1979; I had my first child in 1982. (snip) also was witness to the neglect of children by their parents in Oregon House.
No Kid responds:
I do not intend to provoke anyone. I do not post here much. I notice that when, very once in a while, there are posts here from people who were actually *children* when we were involved (through our parents, such as they were) that these posts are most often ignored. I wonder why. Anyway, because of that, we tend not to post. I suspect that these kinds of posts make people uncomfortable because if they are parents, or if they had ANY interaction with any children while they were involved, that it points a finger back at them. I think that it is a lot easier to to concerned about the effects that non-consensual sex acts might have on adults (young, non-citizens…I do get the power dynamic) over whom one has no authority than over what the effects of unknown acts involving one’s OWN children might be. It is easier to live with those answers, because someone ELSE is to blame.
I do not intend to provoke anyone. I do not post here much. I notice that when, very once in a while, there are posts here from people who were actually *children* when we were involved (through our parents, such as they were) that these posts are most often ignored. I wonder why. Anyway, because of that, we tend not to post. I suspect that these kinds of posts make people uncomfortable because if they are parents, or if they had ANY interaction with any children while they were involved, that it points a finger back at them. I think that it is a lot easier to to concerned about the effects that non-consensual sex acts might have on adults (young, non-citizens…I do get the power dynamic) over whom one has no authority than over what the effects of unknown acts involving one’s OWN children might be. It is easier to live with those answers, because someone ELSE is to blame.
Andrew, in post # 103, you wrote: “So I need all of your help my ex is planning on going to apollo with my 12 year old daughter. I am afraid how do I stop them.”
Andrew, you are a grown man. She is a twelve-year old child. If you do not protect your child now, you will have to live with that. Do not think for a minute that she is safe because she is a girl, or “just a baby” or anything. There is a lot of talk on here about RB’s abuses. I am not minimizing that. But anyone who thinks that is the ONLY abuse that goes on in th FoF is way beyond naive. I am not. I would never have survived if I had been. I was only a part of this organization during its “glorious” golden day – before it “got bad” according to many on this list. Nonsense. It was rotten at its root. There were no glory days. In 1971, children went hungry. People who “liked children” were a lot more likely to bring food. Got it? The little ones went for the food and the bigger ones went without. I have no idea what is going on there now, but if you allow someone to take your daughter, that is on YOU. Not the group. Not Robert. Be a man. Protect your child. Please.
I am…
No Kid
No Kid
[More on page 66.]
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No Kid, rare poster that you are, thank you for your regular, but brief, reappearances here.
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