50 .Thank you for your participation Ton. Poetry too is welcome.
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51. Elena - January 30, 2011 [Edit]
I’m very grateful to Ton for presenting this paper. Mr. Mahood’s synthesis of Gebser’s work is wonderfully useful, I should read Gebser himself soon to delight myself in his contribution to the understanding of consciousness.
There seem to be parallels between Gebser’s and Steiner’s approaches to the evolution of consciousness but I find Gebser’s very clear about the particular shifts, as if he had focused with even more detail on the particularities of each period.
I would like to approach the subject from here, I’ll simply write “Elena:” before I make a comment:
The Integral Structure of Consciousness
As can be guessed, then, Gebser feels that we are on the threshold of a new structure of consciousness, namely the Integral. For Gebser, this structure integrates those which have come before and enable the human mind to transcend the limitations of three- dimensionality. A fourth dimension, time, if you will, is added. This integration is not simply a union of seemingly disparate opposites, rather it is the “irruption of qualitative time into our consciousness.”[15] The supercession of time is a theme that will play an extremely important role in this structure. In fact, the ideas of arationality (as opposed to the rationality of the current structure), aperspectivity (as opposed to the perspective, spatially determined mentation of the current structure), and diaphaneity (the transparent recognition of the whole, not just parts) are significant characteristics of this new structure.
Elena: This is beautifully stated. _______End
Stated differently, the tensions and relations between things are more important, at times, than the things themselves; how the relationships develop over time takes precedence to the mere fact that a relationship exists. It will be this structure of consciousness that will enable us to overcome the dualism of the mental structure and actually participate in the transparency of self and life. This fourth structure toward which we are moving is one of minimum latency and maximum transparency; diaphaneity is one of its hallmarks. Transparency is not a “not seeing” as one does not see the pane of glass though which one looks out a window, rather one sees through things and perceives their true nature.
Elena: This too is wonderful. I would like to emphasize the idea that the tensions and relations between things are more important than the things themselves. How the relationships develop over time takes precedence to the mere fact that a relationship exists.
This fact is what can allow us to understand the idea of an objective reality that I’ve been working on before. The “objective reality” of the “thing itself” is one aspect and how the individual interacts with the “thing itself” is another. The “how” the interaction takes place is fundamental because it is determined by the level of being of the individual performing the “act” but even if the level of being of the individual performing the act is not very “conscious”, the act itself “sculpts” the individual’s being. There is a perfectly dynamic relationship between the individual and the object through the act. I don’t know that I would affirm that the tensions and relations between things are more important than the things themselves, everything is “important” but understanding the objective reality of each of the “things” that come into a relationship does not in any way take importance away from the relationship between them.
If for example, we take the act of eating, the objective reality of the individual is one aspect, the objective reality of food, another and the digestive process between them a third one. The process of digestion itself is as significant for the food as for the eater but it is even more significant if we can grasp the multiple dimensions that are being affected by the event.
In the purely instinctive dimension, a body is fed but there is no such a thing as a purely physical dimension. Human beings today hardly understand where matter comes from, how food exists, why carrots, apples or beans, what planets influence the making of such substances and how the Sun and the Earth itself actually play into their making. We also don’t understand in our full reasoning, how exactly each “ingredient” affects not only our physical self but the whole of our self. There is knowledge, a great deal of mental, rational knowledge about all these things but to be able to experience all these things through one’s consciousness is another matter. THAT is what all this is about. The limitations of the mind are such that the mental period of development has limited the extent of our reach as if we had cut our wings. Is it necessary for the human being to “learn” through our minds to be able to perceive through our “self”? Did coming down to Earth, the “Fall” mean that we had to taste the physical through the mind? Taste it to the point of intoxication? Destroy our selves in the unconsciousness of possession? Is it precisely because we are unconscious of the universality of our being that in the period of mental development we become “possessed” by “possession”, even though nothing physical that we’ll ever possess can be possessed longer than our short period of life? The fact that only a few in power posses what belongs to all precisely reveals the state of consciousness that conditions those facts. It is a state of consciousness in which the ego pretends to hold the “whole” through “physical ownership” but even the rich cannot avoid death and loose everything they own.
The shift into “integral” consciousness HAS to mean that the individual human being realizes that the race of “individualism” to own the planet for the few in power is simply self-destructive. To address only one example, the fact that although it is clear that the climate is being altered by the use and abuse of natural resources for the car industry, the businesses and governments related to it continue to pretend to exploit it to its full, even though millions of people are dying due to the “man made disasters” all over the world. It’s THAT lack of “integral” consciousness what determines the actions of these people. They are still fully tied to the mental consciousness tied to the physical plane in which what matters is the few who are “gaining” from the exploitation of resources.
Do I seem to have deviated from the subject of consciousness? If we cannot actualize our consciousness to our practical lives, then it is a consciousness that continues at the service of the mental stage that projects reality to fit its instinctive dimension through imagination. If we cannot actualize consciousness in our every day lives, we are simply in imagination. Consciousness cannot go back. “Instinctive” consciousness aimed at using the mental for personal satisfaction is a retrograde process in human evolution. People do not matter in that consciousness and that is exactly what we are seeing in capitalism. Capitalism justifies the death of no matter who or how many as long as those in power can “own” the goods. In “human” consciousness, people matter. In it, it doesn’t matter what is lost to save no matter how few.
This is what people didn’t understand in the fofblog: that people in the fellowship cult mattered more than the whole system of laws of the United States of America. That what is needed is to question the laws that legalize crime in no matter what institutionalized cult, corporation or agency. That laws that allow some people to abuse, exploit and psychologically annihilate people while still leaving them to function as slaves are not human laws. That people in every institution of our world today in which a few in power literally annihilate the rights of the many at their service are systematically abusing each and every individual’s rights as human beings. That in the “integral” period of consciousness, WE do not adhere to hierarchies of any kind to act on our own name and free will, that WE do not respect anyone above our selves, that WE respect everyone too much to belittle our selves or anyone else.
It is this consciousness what beats powerfully in the Tunisian and Egyptian and in the wikileaks phenomenon, We are shifting from the hierarchic order of things in which a few people submit others into the democratic order of things in which the majority submits itself to the law for the well being of the whole. But for that to happen we need a full reform of the laws so that governments SERVE the people instead of “dominate” them for an indefinite exploitation by the few.
It is a very great time what we are living today, it is a great privilege to be a witness to one’s times!
I need to go, I’ll check for corrections later.
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52. ton - January 30, 2011 [Edit]
? heard of the chinese curse?
may you live in interesting times…
From nowhere do we come, to nowhere do we go; we sort of rest in near-accomplished meaning. We think of this and that, yet that is part and pain; the world is world and glass and July or March, is open and not void, is origin, not beginning; from nowhere do we come, to nowhere do we go.
Jean Gebser 1974
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53. ton - January 30, 2011 [Edit]
an explication, a point of view:
despite the hubbub of everyday existence, its countless goals and projects, there is no progress… moving, we are not going anywhere. movement is an oddity which does not strictly fit rational categories of motion and rest…. “we sort of rest.” not going anywhere because we are not coming from anywhere, and vice versa. ordinary journeys have a starting point and a destination but at a deeper level of analysis, human life does not display linearity, even though the surface impression is that we are on the way from somewhere to somewhere. this belief is axiomatic to human civilization, we need to think that we are on some kind of a journey which has a beginning and an end. this is true even of tribal societies, though in their case the rational model of linearity is replaced with cyclical imagery befitting the mythic structure of consciousness.
from one point of view, our birth is a beginning and our death is an ending, but Gebser does not subscribe to the limited materialistic perspective of human life. what appears to the conventional mind as an entirely new beginning is, for him, merely a transition from one state to another–a re-birth. what the average individual of postindustrial civilization laments as a final end is only a gateway to the invisible realm, with its own regularities and laws. our life is more an infinite loop than a finite line connecting point A and point B… epistemologically, there is movement — “We sort of rest,” which also means: we sort of move. we are not entirely stationary, for this would imply nonexistence, but we are lso not actually progressing from A to B. Rather, our lives are embedded in the infinity of existence, which is the sum total of all possible points: A, B, C … Z.
the progress we tend to associate with our lives belongs to the province of meaning–the domain of the human mind…. thinking makes it so. unlike the great adepts of the East, we are not satisfied with resting in the presence of the “ever-present Origin”– but are forever seeking to conceptualize reality. this intellectual endeavor largely relies on the categories of space and time, which are the forte of the mental structure of consciousness. there is in reality only a “…. buzzing confusion,” to use William James’s words, but we construct a world that extends in space and endures in time. we project upon this construct all kinds of meanings–our personal and collective mythologies and models.
reality is larger than the semantic net we can cast upon it, and so our understanding changes and we find ever new ways of conceptualizing reality. there is no completion to this task, and thus our meanings are always only “near-accomplished.” intellect operates on the basis of categorization, or division. but reality, as the Upanishadic sages taught long ago, is neither this nor that–neti, neti. “This” and “that” pertain to the mind, to human thought…. but “this and that” is “part and pain.” partial experience of reality entails an element of suffering. the incompleteness of experience keeps the quest going. ken wilber called this the “Atman project,” the deep-seated impulse to wholeness, transcendence, perfection, and the unmediated realization (rather than mediated experience) of reality. we protest our finitude, or incompleteness.
civilization, is built upon a profound denial of death, yet, even while we deny death and long for perfect wholeness, we continue to look for it in the wrong place–namely in our conceptualized worlds. but those worlds, or creations, are makeshift arrangements that guarantee no fulfillment, on the contrary, they are as the Sufis put it, a veil of tears. all partite existence is painful: this is the intent behind the phrase “part and pain.” to desist from looking at the world through diverse intellectual spectacles even for a brief moment, we would discover reality as it is: “the world is world. . .” not what the intellect specifies it to be. it ceases to be a “hell hole” from which we must escape, just as it ceases to be a “Garden of Eden,” which we must cultivate.
gebser is not saying that the world lacks all determinate qualities . this would be absurd. He does not deny evolution or history. He does, however, claim that evolution and history are so overburdened with concepts that the realities for which they stand have become hidden from our view. when viewed from the Origin, evolution is neither development nor progress but the crystallization of what has been predetermined in the invisible dimension. strictly speaking, no labels apply to reality. gebser tries to express this almost surrealistically by saying that the world, as it is in itself, is “glass/and July or March.” this is an echo of the Zen statement that upon enlightenment the blue hills are simply blue hills. this nonconceptual world is transparent, is “glass.” when not wearing any semantic goggles, reality is crystal clear, murkiness is a feature of the mind that is not attuned to reality.
the transparent world is not merely empty but open, it is not an utterly featureless world of unsurpassable anonymity. when we truly see, then all distinctions manifest in the same strong light. openness suggests a situation where there is much light. heidegger spoke of a clearing in the forest of being, and this is perhaps a convenient metaphor in the present context. the Buddhist concept and spiritual realization of shunya, which is often translated as “voidness,” suggests a condition that is marked not merely by the absence of things but by a fundamental openness. talking about reality in this way, we are stretching the conceptual mind to its limits, and we can only understand these meanings if we allow ourselves to intuit them by stepping beyond the constraints of language. the world is not just the universe that mysteriously sprang into existence some five billion years ago. the actual world is the ever-present Origin, this implies that we are continuously immersed in the larger reality, which is also the claim of Mahayana Buddhism, even though we are generally not consciously in touch with it.
being out of touch with the ever-present Origin is precisely our dilemma, because it pushes us into partial experiences of reality and thus into the simultaneous experience of suffering (“pain”). but the fact that the Origin is not located in time but is ever-present gives us reason for optimism: we can transcend our partial experiences and come to a realization of the world as it is prior to all superimposed concepts. we can, to use religious language, enter the Kingdom of God, which is always at hand. this is the task before us as a result of the emergent integral structure of consciousness.
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54. ton - January 30, 2011 [Edit]
the above is from feuerstein on gebser — rich sources for questions regarding ‘consciousness.’ have fun!
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55. Elena - February 2, 2011 [Edit]
http://www.democracynow.org/
Wednesday, February 2, 2011
Long live the Public Squares of the world where we fight for freedom!
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56. Elena - February 2, 2011 [Edit]
We will all die but some of us will die fighting for freedom while others will die hurting and allowing others to hurt many. Being passive before inhumanity is in itself inhuman.
FREEEDOM!! Freedom for the soul of the human being in its struggle for self determination in every nation and individual. FREEEEDOM!!
I salute the Egyptian and Tunisian people, you are opening roads that will help so many of us follow.
May my gratitude reach your hearts.
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57. Elena - February 2, 2011 [Edit]
Hello Ton,
Congratulations for what seem changes in your understanding. Until quite recently you were insulting and questioning me for having an outlook on our oneness, wholeness or unity and you are now quoting a similar stand by Gebser
I guess the good thing about all struggle is that no matter how little the shift, it makes the effort worthy.
Interesting that you still seem unable to speak for your self and have to present other people’s words to speak, unable to communicate. How difficult is it really to actually be without fear? To dare to think and act for one’s self without fear of making mistakes, resolved to correct one’s self again and again whenever anyone is gracious enough to point out one’s weaknesses? To love with love and not the pain of having to hide behind made up excuses? To have to justify one’s self over and over again for no one else’s sake but one’s self, paying homage to justifications because one is unable to pay homage to the truth? The simple living truth of reality? You and I speaking to each other?
I have no idea who you’re trying to perform for but if you wish to write here please write from your heart and soul without fear like a friend and with love or don’t write at all. I am not interested in anyone who cannot acknowledge his own love for life, people and truth.
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58. ton - February 3, 2011 [Edit]
and you haven’t changed one iota…. why the animosity toward me elena? do you understand why you are so angry? and why do you feel you need to direct this anger at me? where does your rage reside elena? what purpose does it serve to direct it at me ? it would seem you’ve chosen me to be the enemy ? ! that will get you nowhere… only stuck… and that’s why you haven’t changed.
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59. Elena - February 3, 2011 [Edit]
No Ton, I have not changed, I am still standing for everything you’ve been insulting and questioning against me for a long, long time, long before you had me banned from the fofblog for the second time. Since you haven’t changed either nor are you willing to apologize at any point in time although you seem to be changing your points of view, since you still seem to want to have your superiority act with me, hide behind other people’s words and cannot speak for your self on what is actually presented here, showing yourself as if you always had to have the upper hand on the questions without ever willing to actually dialogue directly about them and can’t ever acknowledge One of your many mistakes, what are you still doing here when you can clearly see that I am NOT willing to change what I’ve been standing on since I left the Fellowship cult?
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60. ton - February 4, 2011 [Edit]
find it in your heart dear elena,
to let go of these feelings…
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61. Elena - February 4, 2011 [Edit]
Is THAT your hero? Why don’t you go talk to the angels Ton, then you can find your equals, like in the fofblog for example!!
Are we going to have your dear Elena act first and your lunatic hipocrite then or are you actually here to talk about what this blog is about? Talk Ton, not just quote people. Talk from your very own self, what YOU think, what YOU can dare to stand up for? Is it too difficult for you to understand that the public square of every city is for the people? You? Not your imaginary picture of you but you. Crying, screaming, walking, singing but you.
We’ve worked together long enough Ton and we haven’t gone anywhere, why do you want to insist? What are you here to further justify about your behavior? Not good enough yet for you?
Or is it that you still don’t understand that words don’t matter nearly as much as acts. How, why and to whom you speak? You come with your quotes and put them in the river like sail boats that you are unwilling to own, terrified that the wind might actually lift you up and take you away with them, confront your soul with its spirit and call on you to put your face to your words.
You still don’t understand me Ton. You don’t realize that my madness is upside down to yours, another extreme in the play of expressions but one willing to play itself in the arena with honesty unashamed to show the odds. I am not putting out little baits for the fools trying to convince them that the bait doesn’t hide the hunger behind the rod with a sophistication of a people that invested themselves in a world of appearances that they themselves can no longer touch.
How different are you to Robert Burton Ton? You even carry the Ton of the Burton, how casual! Is that the real problem for all of you in the fofblog to not actually finish the cult? That you all carry the man inside your selves? That you learnt his ways so well that you cannot bring your selves to stop him no matter how much harm you know he is doing? How did you convince your selves that the harm wasn’t harmful enough for you to stop it? That you had to convince yourselves that I was the mad one on the boat and not him and you who question him but support him?
I guess you don’t realize how similarly you behave to him, using language indirectly, placing quotes from the great people of the world in your mouth but avoiding to own them your self so that no one can ever confront you, touch you, love you but hold the imaginary picture up in reverence so that you don’t crumble down to the nothingness.
It is not that you are not as human as anybody else, you all are, Robert included. It is that you yourselves have stepped outside your own humaneness and actualize the inhumanity in each gesture, step and speech. You are unwilling to touch your own nothingness too afraid of its beauty for the nothingness of every human being is the fact that we are all equal, equally human with no one above anybody else and that is so infinitely beautiful.
You come back to this blog after running away when things became adverse to your play convinced that it is always the same, that nothing has changed and that I’ll put up with you again and again playing out the same trend only because you are incapable of acknowledging what is and has always been my case. We have a case and play ourselves around that case. What we are reveals itself in the way we move around it and our selves.
So I ask you, what are you here for Ton? Are you interested in the separation of state and religion? Cults? Is there anything of value here that you can address and talk about and establish a dialogue from your soul to my soul without patronizing me in any way? All dialogue is about sculpting each other’s soul. It is about respecting the other enough to submit to the sculpting. We trim each other with love when there is enough humaneness in the dialogue. But where there is no love or respect which is its consequent quality, there is no dialogue.
I don’t think there is love between us Ton. At least not enough for the kind of dialogue that I would like to carry out here. You come here after years of struggling with each other trying to justify yourself again and again and trying to convince me that I am a lunatic that deserved to be whipped out of the fofblog hoping that banning me would quiet your own souls. It doesn’t happen like that Ton. Language is more powerful than that. It rests in our hearts like water and penetrates no matter the buffers we try to impose on it.
You and the fofblog have been no different than the Fellowship cult. You institutionalized your selves and your mentality and justified your lack of action against the cult and banned me just like the Fellowship bans the people that it doesn’t agree with. So WHAT are you doing here?
I already know what you’ve come here for before. If you’re coming for the same agenda please be kind enough to turn around and leave through the same door you entered. If your agenda is different please state it so that I can consider it for I am no longer willing to give you the tolerance I’ve had with you before.
Thank you nevertheless for the opportunity to clarify myself about these issues, it is always good to actualize one’s present self!
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62. Elena - February 4, 2011 [Edit]
Where did you leave this America Ton?
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63. Elena - February 4, 2011 [Edit]
Or this one?
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64. Elena - February 4, 2011 [Edit]
Think we’ll ever dance?
the songs we’ve shared in life?
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65. ton - February 4, 2011 [Edit]
why the continued attacks elena? is there no civility in you ? this is the type of behavior that got you banned at the fofblog…. but since you’ve created your own space here you can get away with whatever. elena, i know this is your blog and you know it’s your blog, but you say it’s ‘a public square’ — that’s false advertising, you can’t even accept that i visit here from time to time, i need a ‘reason’ !?! what, are you going to ban me again if i don’t present you with a ‘proper’ reason ? how’s this: we’re two old ‘friends’ and occasionally i like to check in to see what you’re up to… i’m a ‘casual’ observer who posts from time to time… is that a ‘good’ enough reason for you elena? or are you going to ban me again?
apparently you didn’t benefit from any new understanding by reading gebser, you might have been able to restrain the venom in your latest attack on me if you had learned anything from the gebser article… it might have dawned on you to realize that consciousness is without an object…. (your original question was about consciousness, right ?) one way gebser and feuerstein describe consicousness is that it’s without an object, but the individual and her experience fills it full of mind-stuffing, it’s this ‘conditioned’ mind and its’ responses which distort any potential clarity.
so elena, you ‘see’ in me what you ‘want’ to see and so i become a target for your hostility… you ‘saw’ in gebser what you ‘wanted’ to see, you filtered it through that silly slogan you keep repeating endlessly, as if repetition will make it more true… and that’s all you could get out of gebser ?! through a glass darkly…
elena, you rant and rail and rage against me every time i post here… why is that ? you banned me from posting here elena, i never banned you! that says something about you, not me. it’s your blog elena, you can do what you will, but don’t call it ‘a public square’ — you cut and paste literally hundreds and thousands of pages here and that’s ok…. but when i paste a few paragraphs for ‘public’ consideration, you fly into a rage and attack me… don’t you find that a little odd? do you hate me because i’m american, do you hate me because i’m male, do you hate me because i was in a cult, do you hate me because….??? what happened to “we are one” ???
i’m not your enemy elena, and to defend myself against your assaults only feeds that illusion…. you treat me here with aggression, in your eyes i’m something less than human, i’m simply a target for your hostility as it turns out. you’re obviously still hurting real bad inside… i’m sorry for you…. they say time heals all wounds…. i’ll check back with you later.
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66. Elena - February 4, 2011 [Edit]
Oh yes, you did ban me and made no protest about it and hunted me down knowing you had the whole blog on your side and every time you come here it is to find something with which to justify yourself or give another of your “lessons” so that I CHANGE!!
I’m not changing Ton so stop wasting your time. You don’t need to put words in my mouth, I don’t hate you but I no longer trust you or believe in your “good” intentions and it feels so good to remind you how things happened so that the theater you staged up is even more visible.
You’re not my enemy? Well, with friends like that, who needs enemies?!!
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67. Elena - February 4, 2011 [Edit]
And about We are One, we are one Ton in a dimension that you cannot actualize. Now you’re talking to me because you can’t avoid my confronting you but that was not your intention. Your intentions are the same as always: trying to show me how deranged I am so that I change and you can justify your beatings in the fofblog with posts on consciousness and things that I’ll reach if I follow you word by word and submit to you. You’ve got a real problem here as long as you keep trying that out. I’m afraid Bobby was a great teacher, I don’t buy the likes of him no matter how well disguised.
So if you think we’ve had enough of our little drama, then maybe I can get on with the things that this blog is really about.
On your approach to consciousness we don’t agree. You have the same approach Girard and the Fellowship have: that the mind doesn’t participate in consciousness. That truth has been manipulated and distorted badly and people without consciousness think that functions have nothing to do with consciousness nor are they able to see consciousness or the lack of it in the world in precise ways. The state of consciousness does not need the mind to be but it is consciousness what determines what the mind thinks. A low level of consciousness acts and thinks in specific ways. It is unable to grasp the whole of no matter what situation. It sees one side or another but not both sides and tries to annihilate the other side that it is not willing to see to justify the fact that it doesn’t see it. That is how ridiculously destructive it happens to be and there is nothing funny about it no matter how ironic. It is the lower eating the higher. That’s good, I’d never actually seen that law so clearly. In practical terms it bans, imprisons and kills people who do not agree with it. It destroys nature because the greed doesn’t allow it to see it as a necessary dimension of and for human development. The saddest aspect of fascism is that it is not conscious people performing evil but unconscious people performing their best understanding strongly attached to their egoness.
Let’s take a look at your post 52
52. ton – January 30, 2011 [Edit]
? heard of the chinese curse?
may you live in interesting times…
From nowhere do we come, to nowhere do we go; we sort of rest in near-accomplished meaning. We think of this and that, yet that is part and pain; the world is world and glass and July or March, is open and not void, is origin, not beginning; from nowhere do we come, to nowhere do we go.
Jean Gebser 1974
Just like Girard. So you think consciousness has nothing to do with the world and we are going nowhere and if I find our times wonderfully interesting, you think its a curse!!!!
No, of course not, now you’ll say that wasn’t you but Gebser right? So easy when you never speak for yourself unless you’re put against the wall, to blame those you quote…. like Bobby!!
And this style of yours Ton is so sick, can’t you ever just SAY it? Speak? Do you have to “imply” things so that if I actually come at you, you can run to the sides?
THAT is the great problem with a dialogue with you. That you can’t dialogue. The first condition of consciousness between two people is that they openly and sincerely acknowledge each other. “Hello” wasn’t just invented for the comfort and vanity of some people Ton, “HELLO” or any form of acknowledgement of the person one is talking with and to is the first sign of good will and consciousness in those participating but you like Bobby think it’s “feminine dominance”. That you are above everyone and everything and have to account for nothing. If all you can answer to the post I wrote is that “interesting” is a chinese curse, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE? WHY DO YOU EVER COME IF NOT TO SIT IN YOUR OWN DISCOMFORT?
What I mean with this is that although the “state” of consciousness is independent of functions, a “conscious being” is aware of the whole and expresses it in each and every function. Rituals were created to express consciousness in our actions. What we have most lost is the connectedness of our selves to our action. We act without presence and have hence, lost all meaning to reality and its objective dimension. This is the greatest mistake and horror of our times. The individual is worthless, meaningless disconnected to his actions and realities and “reality” is equally worthless and meaningless disconnected from the human being. Western people in particular have lost the meaning of their own selves and the world and think just like you, that “the world” is not the stage on which consciousness actualizes itself. This implies that people are no longer connected to the food they eat, or the work they perform, or the people they have sex with or talk with. Like you they send out words without ever addressing anyone and hoping no one actually sees them, desperately hoping that they will but equally desperately afraid that they will.
I am a woman of my times and have lived ALL those things like most other people and it’s incredibly difficult to reconnect to the meaning of things but I keep trying and am not willing to buffer the fact that we don’t do it. We were badly hurt in the cult and reduced our selves to the first line of work using it against our own will to submit to the guru but as life expands out of the cult, the recovery of genuine social life, genuine human life with all its amazing richness is beautifully “healing”. “Life” starts falling into place and fills one with meaning.
You ask me if I hate you for being American. Do you hate me for being delighted that the Egyptian people recover their dignity and affirm their own will freeing themselves from American monopolization of power, using puppet governments to hurt people everywhere? I do not hate you for being American or Americans Ton but I do hate fascism in no matter what nationality and it is as strong in yours as in mine. Fascism as we’ve well verified was the hallmark of the cult. People abusing their power to destroy others physically or psychologically is fascism. People banning people because they call on them to act against crime is fascism. People hurting people is fascism.
I don’t hate Americans or Colombians and there are as many fascists in Colombia as in America. You’ve played your fascist with me, I don’t doubt I’ve hurt many with my screams and played my part. But I got banned, labelled and insulted by you and you still pretend to play here without even an apology. So yes, I am weary of your presence here, I’ve learnt my lesson and won’t let you set me up easily again. You are accountable here.
You talk about my wounds as if I had no reason to be wounded but I am very glad to feel the pain that you’ve caused me, you and those in the fofblog, trying to set me up with the idea that I am”crazy” because I think you’re all sickly protecting the cult thinking laws that protect crime are too much to challenge. I am not afraid of the pain you cause me or the wounds I still have, why should it surprise me when you’ve allowed the Fellowship to go on for almost forty years without ever seriously challenging it? We learn to live with the pains others cause us; what I’ve never known is how to live with the pains I cause others. Perhaps that is why I am quick to apologize. I apologized for my excesses not for saying the truth as I understand it. Don’t be sorry for me Ton, be sorry when you manage to feel sorry but not for me. I am actually very glad that I was able to stand up for what I believed even if you all turned your backs on me the more I pushed for serious action against the Fellowship. As time passes I affirm and reaffirm what I believed was necessary.
You also ask me if I hate you for other so ridiculous things that I won’t even address them.
Have a lot of fun elsewhere Ton. Let me enjoy what I find of joy. We are not friends and that’s alright. We don’t need to hurt each other though and if for that we are better off not talking to each other then let’s not talk to each other. We each sit at our different ends of the world, were you to care for me, you would write me an email but here you keep trying to play out your own agenda and you’ll have to make up your own blog for that. This one has a different aim that you’re unwilling to play up to.
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