The Separation between State and Religion

In time we will realize that Democracy is the entitlement of individuals to every right that was in its times alloted to kings. The right to speak and decide, to be treated with decency, to serve and be served by people in a State of “love” that is, to serve with one’s work for the development of ‘life’. To belong to the Kingdom of Human Beings without racial, national, social or academic separations. To love and be loved. To die at the service of the whole and be honored in one’s death, for one’s life and work was legitimately valued. To be graceful and grateful. To have the pride and the humility of being One with the Universe, One with every realm of Existence, One with every living and deceased soul. To treat with dignity and be treated with dignity for One is dignified together with All others and Life itself. To walk the path of compassion, not in the sorrow of guilt but in the pride of being. To take responsability for one’s mistakes and sufferings and stand up again and again like a hero and a heroine and face the struggle that is put at one’s feet and in one’s hands. Millions of people, millions and millions of people might take many generations to realize the consciousness of our humaneness but there is no other dignified path for the human being.

The “work” as I conceive it is psychological and political. Psychology is the connection between the different dimensions within one’s self and Politics is the actualization of that consciousness in our practical lives. Religion is the ceremony that binds the connectedness between the individual and the Universe. The separation between religion, politics and science, the arts and sports is, in the sphere of the social, the reflection of the schizophrenia within the individual and the masses. The dialogue between individuality and the "human" belongs to consciousness. The tendency to develop cults resides in the shortcomings we’are finding in life as it is structured today. “Life” has become the private property of a few priviledged who cannot profit from it because as soon as it is appropriated it stops to be “life” or “life-giving”.

We are all the victims of our own invention and each one is called upon to find solutions. The only problem is believing our selves incapable of finding them. We are now free to use all Systems of knowledge objectively, sharing them without imposing our will on each other. To become objective about our lives means to understand that the institutions that govern its experience are critically important. That we are one with the governments, one with the religious activities that mark its pace, that the arena’s in which we move our bodies and the laboratories in which we explore our possibilities are ALL part and parcel of our own personal responsibility. That WE ARE ONE WITH EACH OTHER AND EVERYTHING AROUND US and acknowledge for ourselves a bond of love in conscious responsibility. That we human beings know ourselves part of each other and are willing and able to act on our behalf for the benefit of each and every individual. That we no longer allow governments, industries, universities or any other institution to run along unchecked by the objective principles of humaneness. That we do not allow gurus to abuse their power or governors to steal the taxes and use them to their personal advantage in detriment of the whole. That we do not allow abuse from anyone anywhere because life is too beautiful to do so and that we are willing to stop the rampant crime with the necessary compassion Conscious knowledge is every individual's right. Conscious action is every individual's duty.

Monday 13 September 2010

Will and Elena - Baba and Gurdjieff







82 Elena
Hi Will, Thanks for the song.
Meher Baba and Gurdjieff do not fight in their approach, they are different systems but not understandings.
Sorry your comment was delayed.


Will Mesa



Hi Elena,
You are correct. Meher Baba followed Vedanta and Mr. Gurdjieff followed Tantra. In Vedanta all is Illusion; in Tantra all is Real. I follow Tantra because it corresponds to my cosmic type. But Vedanta is as valid as Tantra. Different ways for different types. I follow Mr. Gurdjieff when he said “When take, take; when give, give.” That is pure Tantra. I think Tantra is much more adapted to the Western mentality than Tantra. What do you think?
Will







Will Mesa - September 12, 2010 




I prefer Orage’s essay On Love to what Baba wrote here. I find it more human and less spiritualized.And it corresponds more to the Living Teaching Mr. Gurdjieff brought to the West. Most of these Indian Gurus do no understand us Westerners. That is why in Beelzebub’s Tales there is a very strong criticism of Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism.


86. Elena - September 13, 2010 




Hi Will,
It’s fine to post your answer here on the box instead of the reply under the comment so that we don’t have to go back up there because sometimes they get lost.
I enjoyed your differences on vedanta and tantra. I didn’t know they were called such. If I am more in the tantra world then Meher Baba is as real to me as Gurdjieff. I see things that fit their time and place and try not to judge everything and become cultish about anything anymore. I already took that road for too long and it led to hell but I respect anyone’s choice to still tread on it as long as they don’t harm anybody else or pretend to impose it on anybody else… which is rare for in our longing for unity we try to convince each other to join us.
We cannot disagree on what you prefer or not. You’ve worked hard on Gurdjieff’s book and your knowledge of it is welcome. I enjoy being reminded and even more realizing all the mistakes and faults he also made no matter how much I’ve followed the System.
I’m no longer anyone’s follower though. I’m not looking for instructors or guides nor do I feel I can instruct or guide anyone. Just people to share who I can listen to and who can hear what is said without judgment, lying, identification, imagination and negative emotions and with all the love or external consideration that we can amass. I am far from practicing these things still so it is necessary to practice with people so much more often!
Have a lovely day!


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