Catholicism vs the work Daily Cardiac 27 Nov. 09

302. Elena - November 27, 2009 [Edit]

Daily Cardiac: That name is merely a label. The label is not the garment. The esoteric teachings have not ever changed or deviated from the same source (Influence C) from day one. Objective Truth by its very nature cannot be the Second Way, or Religion, but to distinguish one from the other someone needs to be looking for the higher of the two. If one is not really looking for Objective Truth it could very easily look like falsehood when encountered. Finding spiritual truth is a slippery slope.

Elena: We live in a benign world offering everything to support our evolution: Earth, water, Sun and Air, that is LIFE and everything that comes with it, WHAT MORE DO WE WANT? Only cults have to convince us that it’s a destructive world to enslave and exploit us. It is our own destructiveness in this world of hierarchies that is destroying what we have been given: Earth, Water, Sun and Air to develop our selves in with the help of every being in the Universe. THAT IS INFLUENCE C Not a deity supporting rape and raping. ———-
Ames: “A religion like any other in that it uses fear or infatuation to bind the followers.”
Daily Cardiac: As an organization the FoF is fairly difficult to join and very easy to leave. One has to pay money in advance to join and one only has to stop paying money to leave. So I don’t know the binding you speak of. I have not been in fear for even one hour since I joined. Infatuation usually does not last for 39 years (and counting, for some individuals). If it does it is not infatuation.
Elena: How would you know the binding that Ames speaks of when you are the binder and have no distance from your self? How can you look at your back without the consciousness of your shadow? You have not been in fear because you acted out without malice but we are so sick in our times that we do not need malice to throw up demons. We are victims of our own inventions and are using our power to destroy each other instead of helping our selves to freedom. Infatuation lasts lifetimes when you’re in power because the false ego doesn’t want to give up the power and that’s what you’re under. !——

“A religion like any other that claims it is the only true one, that it has an exclusive pathway to salvation, that all other religions are false, that followers are singularly blessed, that to leave is damnation.”
What are you saying, that there is no true way? Truth be told there is one true way and many false ways, and the ones who look the hardest for it are the ones to find the true way. The FoF claims it’s place as a true esoteric school of awakening, in the tradition of similar schools from past ages. It claims nothing more, nothing less.

Elena: You do like to play with words, what Ames is saying is not that there is no true way but that the FOF Cult is not a true way no matter how much you defend it. There is nothing esoteric about it, it is the most shocking manifestation of Influence A without a trace of soul. Indulgence and abuse in sex, money, clothing, pretense, dogma, lack of creativity, repetitiveness of the same formula, power, control, imposition, indifference, imagination, lying, inner considering, lack of external consideration, rape, fraud and every other obstacle to culture and evolution is what is practiced in its bosom. It is as close to hell as one can get on Earth.——–

“A religion like any other that demands faith, credulity and childlike (and permanent) dependence. A religion like any other that necessitates intermediaries between the supplicant and God.”
Faith is necessary in the spiritual quest, not blind faith, but faith based on what is understood in the reality of the moment.
Elena: LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, the System is not based on faith but verification.—-

The spiritual child starts from dependence and ends in liberation, just like the physical child. Intermediaries are needed for part of the journey.
LIAR, YOU’RE ALL LIARS AND YOU’RE BEING LIED TO. EACH MEMBER INSIDE, LISTEN WELL BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE SYSTEM. THIS IS A FOUL LIE AND CORRUPTION OF THE SYSTEM.——-

The concept of a guide is understood by all. At some point along the way the guided become the guides. Teachers are spiritual guides. This is not a Burtonism, but a Spiritualism. Christ was that for the Apostles, Buddha for his disciples, and on and on.

Elena: We are not in the times of Catholicism which separated light from man, we are in the times of light in man, we are each the bearer and carrier of light. We have our self to guide our actions and can trust that we will do no evil knowing our self. We are each enough of an authority to protect the truth and in submitting to our community we allow the community to protect us all. We submit not to one man with power but we submit to the power of the community to keep us in balance when we hurt each other. We submit to conscious democracy. To civility with unity or “re-ligio”, reunited in the consciousness of our integrity and wholesomeness. ——

Ames: “You advocate for the Pathways to Presence website. Is it because it is so pretty? Is the language so refined? Sure it’s pretty; the Fellowship of Friends has recruited some talented designers and writers in its time. We are here to tell readers that the prettiness hides something awful, that behind the facade there is rottenness, lies and corruption. That Burton is a charlatan and a liar, and has been from the start.”

Daily Cardiac: Again all I can start with is that there are many others who disagree with your words. What does that mean for you that many others disagree? Do you think you are more correct than they? If so how did you arrive at that conclusion? All you can reasonably say is that the FoF was not for you and you alleviated the problem by departing. You cannot know anything about my reality; you can only assume to know. And why would you assume to know someone else’s reality?

Elena: Because we are one and you cannot separate from us. Because we trust on what we are and our ability to discriminate between good and evil, harmful and healthy. Because we have the AUTHORITY to govern our lives and challenge what we see as harmful in our societies. Because we have been victims of your cult and know that in your position you have to defend it but that doesn’t make your position legitimate, it makes you accountable for your actions. You might be as ignorant as a nazi officer but that doesn’t make you any less accountable for your crimes. AND YOU ARE CRIMINALS.———-

Are the testimonies of 20 or 30 ex members who have been regularly posting here for the last year or so, or the 150/200 or so who have posted sporadically over the last 2.5 years, enough to automatically cancel out the 1600 who presently support and value the FoF? Show me where/how that is so? Or else reason it out to me more convincingly than by saying “it is true because I say so” or “it happened like this because several known or anonymous posters say it did.” I say it is not so. We have a stale mate. How do we go beyond this impasse?

Elena: 15.000 members have managed to leave after being ripped off and those inside are still just victims. Victims of your tongue and the power of this same structures that you are spitting out here. The fallibility of it all lies in the obvious corruption you’ve made of the System that I have already shown above. ———-

Ames: “Daily Cardiac, ask yourself why you defend the Fellowship of Friends and Robert Earl Burton. If you have verified that he is a ‘conscious teacher’, and that agents of the ‘spirit world’ exist and are helping you and other co–dependents, then that knowledge should be unassailable. Ditto the ‘hundreds of members’ who you claim have also verified this stuff.”
I’m not defending my position any more than you are defending yours. If you could see that it would represent a breakthrough that would find you on the threshold of a real discussion. 
Also, the knowledge of what the FoF is is unassailable. One only has to be open to it to see that.

Elena: There is nothing unassailable about the FOFcult, it is pathetically obvious for anyone off its spell. And in your answer you avoided the question which is very clear: if you and Robert can verify higher beings so can everyone else in the world, what makes you think that you are the only one’s with the right to leaders? To make decisions? To spend the money? To preach YOUR truth and have everyone else abide to it? Don’t avoid the question as you preach others not to.——–

Ames: “Why should ‘C-Influence’, as you conceive it, need a bunch of little helpers like you anyway?”
They do not need me to defend their works. They allow me to write here as they allow you to.

Elena: Now you’re making me laugh but it’s tragic. A tragic comedy. Here you are at last presenting your self as the endower of the word of Christ to justify murder: the banning of thousands of people that you couldn’t submit physically, emotionally, intellectually and last but not least, SEXUALLY; economically, academically, spiritually and last but not least, socially. And you’ve killed people inside Daily Cardiac. The blood of those who have committed suicide in the hopelessness of Fellowship life runs in your veins, in your karma for you have no destiny but karma.———

Ames: “You attract comments from exasperated readers who show their exasperation openly.”

Why are they exasperated? If they were living in truth they would not be exasperated. Truth does not exasperate, truth calms. Falsehood is what exasperates. All crimes take place from a false place, a false position by exasperated individuals. How do you reconcile this seeming contradiction? This qualifies as an issue to be looked into. Dennis Larson gave his reason for this dichotomy and that is his offering. I have another viewpoint which sees that explanation as a thinly veiled justification. Any false action can be justified as being appropriate, but it cannot be made appropriate. Those looking for truth will see it for what it is. But at least he offered his reasoning. That’s all that’s possible on a forum of this kind – both viewpoints are out there for consumption.

Elena: No Daily Cardiac, we do not talk just to talk, we talk to act, we reason to understand and when we realize that we have made mistakes we correct them. THAT is what this dialogue is for. You do not wish to acknowledge your mistakes but that doesn’t stop us from knowing what is criminal about the Fellowship Cult: intentional fraud to rape and exploit.——-

Ames: “You concentrate on the language but not the message. What is the message for you, Daily Cardiac, and can you learn to recognize and value it?”

I have made the verifications necessary for me to value as true what I do value. The words of ex members have no sway over me. If any words here were able to sway me it would only mean I hadn’t really verified anything but just thought I had. Or it may mean I forgot the verifications.

Elena: The words of other people are life giving. They sway us and move us because they are the expression of the spirit. The logos! We live in the spirit when we talk with each other and listen to each other’s being. We sculpt our selves in the interaction. Purify our selves so that we can live in harmony with each other. You cannot hear the soul with which others cry their suffering. You demeanor other’s crying because it expresses itself in pain: FUCK YOUSICKMOTHERFUCKERS, you’ve hurt us. And all those who are still quiet about it are too hurt to scream. It takes a long time for most people to be strong enough to scream after they’ve been raped. It is their silence what you don’t want to hear.———

Objective truths do not change from day to day or year to year. They just are. If someone has verified a teacher is enlightened and that teacher manifests in a way the student does not understand there are several options available than to throw out the verification. The reasons a spiritual teacher would act in ways incomprehensible to a student are many, too many to go into here.

Elena: Nothing is too much to go into here, you’re just avoiding the issues.—–

But it all starts with looking for truth, finding truth and recognizing it when one finds it. If you’re like WhaleRider and don’t believe in the process of verification then what I’m reasoning now won’t mean a thing to you.

Elena: You are a poor warrior after all, you’ll lose simply because you don’t even know the weapons with which others fight. Whalerider has given you precious understanding and you can’t even smell it! How could you when smelling is an aspect of the emotional centre and yours is dead!—–

As I said the gaps, the degree of improbabilities, the contradictions, in the information generated by ex members is substantial to say the least. All you really have is a series of unsubstantiated claims of abuse by a small group of mostly anonymous individuals. Coupled with that you have the same individuals repeating these claims over and over embellishing them more and more with each repetition. (By the way, that’s a sure fire way of desensitizing the information until the fantastic stories become more mundane with each retelling. You might want to think about that approach.)

Elena: And yours becomes more alive with each post but still have hardly a handkerchief out of the grave! Keep waving your arm inside, you might actually hit a nail or a nerve and set yourself free.———

If you toss out the laws of probabilities you do not help your cause one bit. What do you have besides mostly anonymous entirely unsubstantiated claims? Where are the victims? Who are the victims? Where are the documented histories of treatment for trauma due to abuse? Where are the medical bills, the lost jobs and broken homes due to inability to cope with all this unbridled abuse at the hands of a Manson / Koresh / J. Jones / Hitler figure? (ex members comparisons, not mine) No one had to look hard for that group’s victims and their documented and detailed histories of abuse.

Elena: You are the victim to begin with but when a man gets used to eating dirt he goes mad if you try to keep him away from it, said Rumi. YOU my love, are the first victim, the worst victim. The rest of us are already recovering! YOU AND ROBERT.

What do you have in real evidence in 40 years? A lone civil suit by a 17 year old who claimed he had unlawful sex with RB? An individual who filed his claim soon after his farther was expelled from the FoF? An individual who decided he preferred to take a few hundred thousand dollars rather than bring his abuser to trial? That’s not much to stake so much of your life trying to rectify, is it?

Elena: Keep screaming Daily Cardiac that the silent ones will hear you.—–

The way people are made we can’t do two things at once very well. One or both of the activities must suffer. If you are a brain surgeon you can’t have a cell phone conversation while operating on a patient, either the patient will be worse off or the conversation will be compromised.

You can’t live your life fully and dedicate a significant portion of it to trying to bring down an organization you no longer belong to because of a notion of “phantom victims” being abused in this organization that is as easy to leave as not making out a check and signing it over. You should want more than that from the rest of your life, especially if you feel you have already wasted too much time in the organization in question. Ex members will read this and say, “what a clever ploy, this is his way of getting us to ease off of his beloved school”, but that would be an incorrect assumption.

Elena: How would it be incorrect? That is absolutely correct, thank you for keeping us from having to formulate it.———

I harbor no ill will towards you. There are already too many unhappy people in the world. It’s bad for everyone. I’d much rather see you out fishing or doing whatever strikes your fancy than seeing you out picketing in front of the gatehouse. The picketing does not change much, if anything. I think you know that.

Elena: I should be up there soon and picketing will be your daily bread! What are you going to do now? Take me to court again or kill me? What a waste when we could all be fishing!——-

That’s not why I say this. If you want to know the truth, I see that the blog, if anything, helps the FoF; in recruitment, in any number of ways. Without the blog I would not have been able to list the comments of those ex members, whose true nature speaks for itself. The blog will not keep one true student away, or help one true student to leave. It will only keep away those who would not have stayed anyway thereby saving both sides time and energy. The school has never been about numbers, but its always been about spaces. If someone ill suited for it stays away someone who connects with it has a space waiting.

Elena: Again not true, we are much stronger now and the Fellowship is waning.

You might also like to think about a hypocritical action you engaged in recently. You were the only one with the resolve to call out Elena, but ultimately it is seen as a self-serving action. You did not call her out because of her extremist nature and abusive tirades. She did not represent the most vulgar or abusive poster here. There are several still posting who you ignore who are more abusive than Elena. You called Elena out because she began to attack other ex members, i.e. those whose viewpoints you share. I get much more verbal abuse from any number of ex members than Elena dished out to WhaleRider but that doesn’t phase or concern you one bit. So, as I see it, your standing up to Elena was purely self serving, doing the right thing for the wrong reason. You may not even relate to what I’m saying but any open minded viewer sees it for what it is, and it doesn’t serve your cause well.

Elena: True and not true. Banning me was self serving but also I was abusive and sick. I’ve been sick ever since I allowed the Fellowship to abuse each and all of us. And I did start screaming at ex-members for not acting seriously against your crimes and I did take too much space. Ames might be self-serving but it doesn’t make his stand any less necessary. You see, the wonderful thing about being in a group is that we sense each other’s weaknesses and help each other remove them. If we are healthy we continue to struggle and love each other. Never with banning. Banning is criminal. But calling out abuse is not and I was abusive. I was sick and tired of screaming to the indifference of the many and so tired and hopeless. So don’t think you’ll divide us even further with this affirmation. The fofblog is priceless! It is doing a wonderful job! The recent posts by Golden Veil, Ton and even Ames are aiming exactly where it is necessary to aim and you are loosing the battle Daily Cardiac. They were absolutely right in wishing to speak their own word without my screaming and I’d gotten too loose. It doesn’t justify my banning which is simply an expression of the self-serving but it justifies being called on. We’ve all learnt quite a bit from it. Don’t try to use our mistakes to justify your crime. It doesn’t work like that. Mistakes are mistakes but crime is punishable. That was the difference. They treated me as if I were a criminal and I am not, they are so cult like still that they use the same mechanisms the cult uses, but they are fighting against your crime and I am with them every inch of the way and not with you. We already separated no matter how much we loved each other. Love cannot stop us from separating when it is an unpracticed ideal, a pretense living in imagination and crime.

Reply

303. Elena - November 27, 2009 [Edit]

Jomo, Ton, Crouching Tiger, you do give answers but you also avoid the questions. So convenient to remain blind isn’t it?
Don’t you think the traces of Robert Burton still linger in all of you by addressing only what is convenient to you and not everything presented?

It’s one thirty in the afternoon Colombian time of the 27th Nov. 2009 after Dr. Pangloss’ post No. 89