Crouching Tiger- Elena Nov 29th 09

317. Elena - November 29, 2009 [Edit]

Hi Crouching Tiger,
Thanks for affirming that last sentence. I wonder what’s taken you so long! It is much appreciated!

* “Where on earth do you see that he is my ally? Ally? “liar, liar, liar,” what makes you think that an ally is someone I call liar?”……………

“What Daily Cardiac is saying is the same that I feel and said: People stop addressing the argument and start attacking the individual when they can’t argue with the arguments.”
That makes him your ally in the sense that you want to operate on the same wavelength as him. Argument unrelated to the mouth/psychology it comes out of.

Elena: It’s like saying we are friends because we are riding on the same boat! You can’t loose one can you?

* “When I started insulting Daily Cardiac and screaming at him that he didn’t answer questions post after post I was certainly tired of the game and thought his being able to spread propaganda without being held accountable was absurd.”

You told everyone else on the blog that you thought they should be doing exactly the same, and not legitimizing DC by responding without rancour.

Elena: Are you sure yourself? Bruce has been spitting on him since the beginning and I don’t remember telling Bruce what to do!
* “Of course I’ve pointed problems out that aren’t solely Robert’s and Girard’s and THAT is what’s gotten me so many enemies …”
So the real reason you got banned is that you pointed out areas where posters were still fellowship victims in their thinking? Do you really believe that?

Elena: the real reason I got banned is because I confronted the people in the fofblog with the fact that they were not willing to do anything serious against the Fellowship cult. I called them FASCISTS and on top of it I did it in a very aggressive desperate way. I also called them sissies and forgot to mention that in the end as long as it’s other Barbies living of non Barbies they give a damm if the Fellowship goes on!——–

“Ames, Old fof , Bruce and Vena came along like the sacred cows we happen to know they think they are and took over with arguments no better than a Girard in the Fellowship would give. My point is, what is it that you keep supporting when the structure is the same?”

What you’re saying is that because the blog hurt and rejected you, it must somehow be like the fellowship which did the same? Are you sure?

Yes, I’m sure that the mechanism the fofblog used to ban me is exactly the same mechanism that the fof cult uses to ban people without addressing the issues and justifying it by the persons “negativity” just like they threw Ames and five others when they questioned Linda in a meeting.

* “I should write poetry and Colombian stories! Like a woman should? ”

I asked you to write from your experiences in the fellowship, as simply and as directly as possible. So why try and twist the truth?
Elena: Yes, it’s Nigel that wants to reduce me to poetry and Colombian stories but you’ve equally dismissed the rest of the material.

* The Steiner/Jung question is partly a question of length. Several bloggers pointed out to you that your contributions were too long and too arduous to read for a blog.

Elena: It’s like saying we can’t use the long rope even if it’s the only one that fits to pull the sunk boat out of the water!

But I’ll accept one thing. I’ve been sick and needing reassurance ever since I gave my self up to the Fellowship and I took more space than was necessary expressing how needy I’ve been. I’ve been acting like a sick desperate person and that is how I’ve been. There were excesses in the fofblog, many of them, I don’t deny that but others were no less excessive and the moderator took sides because the mind frame was bias enough and you who say you didn’t agree, didn’t question THAT. One person said it clearly but you let it fly by unnoticed. You’ve all been quiet for months! And you know what Crouching Tiger? At this point I don’t want to go back to the fofblog. That is not the point. I’m glad I’m out of that club too. What I think is valuable is that we look in detail at how we behave. Do you see how clearly the pattern is to that of the Fellowship? ———-

Of course you can do whatever you want on your own blog, but if you have to interact with others in a truly public forum, you might want to take that on board. Why not just post a link and write a about the essential points? Brevity and concentration stand a better chance of keeping people’s attention.

So I don’t say your theorizing has no value at all, but I do say it should be kept firmly in the background. What we want to know about is who YOU are and what your experiences were, and for you to hold on to that question at all times…

Elena: the long rope is a poor excuse CT. We spent decades in the Fellowship cult. Cults with these characteristics are a new phenomenon that we are just beginning to understand. Exploring material is part of the job. When there is valuable material it helps us all. That is one aspect, the other is the length of my own posts and yes I am long. I am not a professional writer, I am confused and writing has helped me under-stand, know where I stand. When I know it’ll be very easy to sinthetize. But pretending that is a crime is just formatoriness that doesn’t really want to listen. It’s not the subject but the person what is being ignored no matter how we excuse it!

Like for example in this recent interchange the most important thing that is happening is that Daily Cardiac is giving out very specific points of dogma that I’ve addressed and need addressing and you don’t even consider that. The theory matters because people follow what they believe and questioning those beliefs with the System matters, which is what DC is pretending to stand on. At this point offering other frameworks is not only positive but necessary because people are at a loss and they won’t replace Fellowship dogma first until they understand what it is and second until they find a better one. I sincerely believe DC, hard headed as he is, is not intentionally lying and is wanting to hear different possibilities but they don’t have them on the fofblog, they turn in the same wavelength as you say. Mine might be wrong but they are very different a pretty clear and that is what is being avoided ——-

* “What makes you think that I am trying to guide anyone else and not finding my self?”

Because you are always attempting to guide people’s responses in the direction you think they should be pointing. Latest example being DC and how to respond to him. If posters don’t take exactly the same approach as you, you tell them that their compass is broken and they should trust you instead. “I am the only one here addressing the issues” or words to that effect. People can’t breathe in that environment.

Elena: Two aspects here: one of behavior and one of content.
The behavior aspect is interesting because as soon as DC questioned Ames about me, can you see the fofblog’s reaction? They stopped dialoguing with him and are beginning to insult which was totally against their aim when they banned me for that is how they justified my banning. All the noise and the meaouwing are just buffers! Can you feel it?
The content is important and that is what you avoid when you don’t look at the theory. The theory is in fact so powerful that after two years all the fofblog could say about my theory is that they wished me luck with my Joan of Arc act. Now that I’m showing the same things based on Jung and Levy that say them so short and efficiently, you won’t read them anyway! These things matter if we wish to be serious about our selves and what we are doing here.——-
And yes, being so constantly sensitive to other people’s responses, and trying by force to influence them in the way you want, does detract from your effort to find yourself again.

Elena: What responses CT? It’s the first time you actually speak here with a full voice.

* “I lack firmness and run away into hysteria too easily? So that makes me guilty enough to be banned like a criminal?”
Apparently yes, because that is what happened. I don’t know if it makes you a criminal, but it certainly made you a outcast from the blog. What I would wish for you is that you stand firm when the hysteria comes, and not take flight into it and try to make judgments from it. That helps keep the dialogue open, and that is what you want, is’nt it? That’s where the courage is necessary – to stand firm in the face of a powerful force inside you – in order to get something you really need…

Elena: Two aspects here: first you’re justifying the blog’s response which I already addressed above and second you’re asking me to be stronger and not get desperate when I feel so frustrated about your not listening. Thank you, I’ll try. One day soon perhaps.

* “What I find strange is that you can neither discard me with the same coldness Ames and Bruce do nor embrace me whole.”
Do I wish to discard you? No. Do I wish to throw myself blindfold into the whirlpool of your psychology? Again, no.

Elena: You have been discarding me for the length of this blog. You have been avoiding to take this subject up in public. You have been thinking that the solution for all this is that I concentrate and write a book and take my lot of this play quietly to a different group of people and assume the shame of having been banned in another venue because I am a lunatic who screams loud and I am not willing to do that until we are able to stand in public and talk as you are doing because it is in public that I’ve been banned with your silences and blessings. If you are changing that hooray, then everything can change! But until we stand on the truth, nothing can move.——–

But I am willing to stand here until you come to your senses. I expect Nigel feels the same way.

Elena: When we come to the truth of what has really been going on here, we’ll all come to our senses! I thought Nigel had gone already. Your pissing metaphor is cheap Nigel; it is not appreciated. Your dark side comes out subtly. Your siding with each other to avoid my questions is questionable. But I appreciate your willingness to stick it out even together until things are clearer.