e: “If you like the role of moderator, you’re also welcome to play it!!”
no elena, as i alluded to in addressing your post 29, i think you are doing an excellent job…
e: “As moderator of this blog could I ask you Ton what is the purpose of your participation here? What is your aim if any?”
elena, i’ve explained this to you before but obviously you need a lot of reassurance, so here it is again: my current ‘participation’ here stems from your most recent banning over at the fof blog… over there i started to pry back the surfaces you so identified yourself with, i questioned some of your perspectives and offered alternative considerations, to which you reacted with a defensive/aggressive feedback loop. i felt that something was started over there, and judging by your defensive reactions, we were getting at some core issues with you… although i understand why the moderator acted as he did, i felt that simply banishing you to your own little room here was not a particularly therapeutic nor a very compassionate gesture, in hindsight, taking up the space over there to process your core issues was not appropriate, but to leave you hanging with parts of your facade peeled away, was not appropriate either so i attempted to do a follow-up here on your site, a follow-up to what was started there on the fofblog. this should explain somewhat what my “aim” is “if any” and i’ve said it before but i’ll say it again because you need to be reassured… my intention is to help you to realize something about yourself, to help you to see yourself through the eyes of another… but since you’ve already said that you don’t need help, then it seems all too obvious that i’m wasting my time.
e: “Are you here as a friend?”
do you need to be reassured again? friendship is not a declaration, it’s a process, it’s a verb… and there are two sides of the coin… you have to answer this question for yourself.
e: “How would you be expressing friendship in your discourse?”
i think i’ve addressed this in stating my intentions… by the way, there are many different types of friendship.
e: “Are you here as an fofblog representative?”
you’re kidding, right ?
e: “As a male whose gender has been attacked forcefully by Elena in the fofblog due to the role they’ve played inside and outside the fofcult? As a male who is trying to sort out his relationship with women and is projecting his difficulties on Elena?”
elena, as far as I AM concerned, gender has nothing to do with it… we all have a female as well as a male side, do you realize that? I think you do… look elena, gender has nothing to do with it, i am A PERSON and you are another PERSON… so if YOU are forced to look at things through a sexist lens, please don’t attempt to project that on me…
e: “Do you have an interest in dialogue? What is dialogue to you?”
elena, from the beginning you’ve denied that this is a dialogue… do you know why ?
e: “It seems that your only aim here is to prove Elena wrong. Could you share what is constructive about that from your point of view?”
i point out the areas i disagree with, yes… and would you not agree that if the foundation is faulty then it needs to be examined and repaired or replaced ? in some cases ‘deconstruction’ has to precede construction, otherwise the structure is built on faulty premises and it will crumble. yes elena, there is a lot you ‘say’ here that i tacitly agree with — by ‘tacit’ i mean i don’t have to point it out to you. what is it about you that you need so much reassurance coming from outside sources ?
e: “There is a lot of material here that does not concern Elena’s personal condition that you seem to avoid consistently. Are you unable to reach out of the personal sphere in a conversation or is this a particular aim that you have, to remain in the personal sphere and if that is the case, would you share why you think it is the only constructive sphere of your participation?”
if you are talking about all the stuff you’re cutting and pasting here, you know what? i can do my own researching, thank you very much. consider this elena, all of the ‘material’ you are cutting and pasting here is being filtered through you and in that sense it too involves “the personal sphere” as you put it… i’ve already addressed my intention (“aim” as you put it) and i’ve already talked about how ‘deconstruction’ and a close and careful examination of the center – the “I” in this case – is actually a prerequisite condition for construction.
e: “Do you remain in the sphere of the personal because that is your aim or because you are unable to move out of it?”
yes that is my “aim” as you put it… my intentions, as i’ve already made clear, are to address YOU here…. as for moving out of the “personal sphere” — in this regard i’ve offered numerous suggestions and many links for your consideration – what you fail to consider here is that all of this so-called ‘non-personal material’ is being sifted and collected and filtered through YOU, so what is being reflected ? it’s YOU ! the micro and macro levels are intimately connected.
e: “I would invite you to choose any subject that you like and try to talk about it without references to your personalities, that is yours and Elena’s and see if that could help you both get out of the identification with each other.”
personality is the tip of the iceberg elena, it really is simply a reflection of much deeper issues… cutting and pasting in abstractions and “isms” may reflect some things about you, your interests and desires, but this can also obscure and obfuscate the center… like i said, i’m interested in what lies beneath… apparently you’re interested in “flowers.”
e: “In that identification you are both expressing an emotional binding but it is acting against the possibility of friendship. Could you both try to relate to each other through the subject themselves rather than the personalities themselves?”
how you define ‘friendship’ is of course a subjective judgment… i do relate to you through the subject, the subject is afterall ultimately the ‘YOU’ and the ‘I’… and this relating to the ‘YOU’ and the ‘I’ is a real and practical application of the “we” you keep harping on. it’s odd that you find a practical concrete treatment of “we” so disturbing… instead you are content to deal in abstractions based on platitudes and “isms” that you are so fond of… i guess that feels safe for you.
e: “The diplomacy according to you is just on the surface but in fact it is in the surface where flowers bloom.”
maybe that’s where we differ, i’m talking about the roots, what lies beneath, that’s what gives rise to your blooming flowers.
41 Elena
You write:
i questioned some of your perspectives and offered alternative considerations,
Would you please explain what perspectives you questioned and what alternatives you offered?
There or here?
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