excuse the non sequitor- I thought it might be interesting to follow this thread from a web site (Zero Hedge) blog that I frequent. It’s a little lengthy but it might be of some interest to the people here to see how threads e/de/volve”. If it seems long we can have the moderator delete it.
-eureka-
“Let’s contemplate and discuss “social cohesion”… What is “social cohesion”? How can we have it – in a dynamic way, so it doesn’t diappear, sucked up by power or bureaucracy? If Libertarianism is based solely on individual pursuit of happiness, how can it possibly create social cohesion?
I want to hear all your descriptioms of dynamic cohesion – if such a concept/model is at all a real possibility.
OR – is U.S. quite simply too big and too divided – ethnically, culturally, financially, territorially – to ever be socially cohesive, and therefore by definition destined to fracture?
Let’s go a little deeper for a while. Let’s see if we have any real brain power – and any real interest in each other’s ideas – and thus by extension in community in general and this country in particular.
Thank you all. I await your intellectual contributions to our common potential for dynamic cohesion.”
“Let’s contemplate and discuss “social cohesion”… What is “social cohesion”? How can we have it – in a dynamic way, so it doesn’t diappear, sucked up by power or bureaucracy? If Libertarianism is based solely on individual pursuit of happiness, how can it possibly create social cohesion?
I want to hear all your descriptioms of dynamic cohesion – if such a concept/model is at all a real possibility.
OR – is U.S. quite simply too big and too divided – ethnically, culturally, financially, territorially – to ever be socially cohesive, and therefore by definition destined to fracture?
Let’s go a little deeper for a while. Let’s see if we have any real brain power – and any real interest in each other’s ideas – and thus by extension in community in general and this country in particular.
Thank you all. I await your intellectual contributions to our common potential for dynamic cohesion.”
-GoldBricker-
‘Your question is an old one.
See Plato’s Republic. Use the Allan Bloom translation.
Plato says that the state won’t hold together if it’s every man for himself, or a few in charge against all the rest. He holds that a form of organization arrived at by reason has the best chance, and says how he proposes to get there. He recognizes all sorts of concepts, including the value of division of labor and comparative advantage.”
‘Your question is an old one.
See Plato’s Republic. Use the Allan Bloom translation.
Plato says that the state won’t hold together if it’s every man for himself, or a few in charge against all the rest. He holds that a form of organization arrived at by reason has the best chance, and says how he proposes to get there. He recognizes all sorts of concepts, including the value of division of labor and comparative advantage.”
-Temporalist-
First I think you should get a better definition of “Libertarianism” because it is not just about “individual pursuit of happiness” it is about the LIBERTY to do things even those that make you miserable too or even kill you as long as it doesn’t hurt someone else or their property.
People take things for granted when it is right there all along. The U.S. Constitution has been disregarded for too long but one day it will be the law of the land again. Perhaps the Declaration of Independence is one definition of Libertarianism for you; as it points out it is about “rights” not “happiness” and without Rule of Law, which has been abandoned in most of the modern world, there can be no “social cohesion.”
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
-Random_Robert-
Where this country has failed is in preserving the separation of church and state… bear with me.
I’m not talking church in the Roman-Catholic, bible toting, mass on Sunday sense.
The church that has captured .gov is the church which espouses the “God’s work” of one Lloyd Blankfein.
You must realize that these uber-rich sociopaths (the same ones who no posess adequate concentration of wealth that they effectively chart the course of society) are compelled to fight for the status quo only to validate their own self righteousness… It is a religion to them, and they are the high Priests.
Does the Catholic Bishop truly believe that his robe and collar are his ticket to heaven, even as he is sodomizing the alter-boy in the confessional booth? Without seeing into the mind of a sociopath, that question can never be answered.
This status-quo, which is so vehemently defended, either creates sociopaths, or it simply offers them the nutrient-rich environment to thrive. Either way, it must yield to entropy.
The Constitution? the Constitution is easily summed up in 3 bullet points:
1) Express yourself
2) Represent yourself
3) Defend yourself
Societal cohesion is born out of the underlying respect that everyone deserves these 3 liberties just as much as anyone else does…
Deny the sociopath the ability to “do right” by you, and you remove their power to corrupt society.
-SteveNYC-
Firstly, to be “in pursuit” can not lead to lasting happiness, the statement was flawed from day 1. The “pursuit” itself of something, anything, will ensure that you can not become “one” with that thing as the desire to have it clouds your inherent relationship with it. Even when one gets what one pursues, it is but fleeting. When the illusion breaks down, so does the temporary state of happiness. In order to be happy, don’t pursue.
Secondly, there is limited understanding not just in this country but in all the world right now, about what we are. The fact that we are all linked, one, has been blown apart by the lies and misinformation rammed down our throats day after day after day by media, politicians, business leaders, neighbors etc. Until we realize what we are, “dynamic cohesion” is just a concept, a pipe dream. Our priorities as a race right now are all f*cked up.
Ok, that’s my 2 cents…..
First I think you should get a better definition of “Libertarianism” because it is not just about “individual pursuit of happiness” it is about the LIBERTY to do things even those that make you miserable too or even kill you as long as it doesn’t hurt someone else or their property.
People take things for granted when it is right there all along. The U.S. Constitution has been disregarded for too long but one day it will be the law of the land again. Perhaps the Declaration of Independence is one definition of Libertarianism for you; as it points out it is about “rights” not “happiness” and without Rule of Law, which has been abandoned in most of the modern world, there can be no “social cohesion.”
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
-Random_Robert-
Where this country has failed is in preserving the separation of church and state… bear with me.
I’m not talking church in the Roman-Catholic, bible toting, mass on Sunday sense.
The church that has captured .gov is the church which espouses the “God’s work” of one Lloyd Blankfein.
You must realize that these uber-rich sociopaths (the same ones who no posess adequate concentration of wealth that they effectively chart the course of society) are compelled to fight for the status quo only to validate their own self righteousness… It is a religion to them, and they are the high Priests.
Does the Catholic Bishop truly believe that his robe and collar are his ticket to heaven, even as he is sodomizing the alter-boy in the confessional booth? Without seeing into the mind of a sociopath, that question can never be answered.
This status-quo, which is so vehemently defended, either creates sociopaths, or it simply offers them the nutrient-rich environment to thrive. Either way, it must yield to entropy.
The Constitution? the Constitution is easily summed up in 3 bullet points:
1) Express yourself
2) Represent yourself
3) Defend yourself
Societal cohesion is born out of the underlying respect that everyone deserves these 3 liberties just as much as anyone else does…
Deny the sociopath the ability to “do right” by you, and you remove their power to corrupt society.
-SteveNYC-
Firstly, to be “in pursuit” can not lead to lasting happiness, the statement was flawed from day 1. The “pursuit” itself of something, anything, will ensure that you can not become “one” with that thing as the desire to have it clouds your inherent relationship with it. Even when one gets what one pursues, it is but fleeting. When the illusion breaks down, so does the temporary state of happiness. In order to be happy, don’t pursue.
Secondly, there is limited understanding not just in this country but in all the world right now, about what we are. The fact that we are all linked, one, has been blown apart by the lies and misinformation rammed down our throats day after day after day by media, politicians, business leaders, neighbors etc. Until we realize what we are, “dynamic cohesion” is just a concept, a pipe dream. Our priorities as a race right now are all f*cked up.
Ok, that’s my 2 cents…..
-EvlTheCat-
To be “in pursuit” of something is subjective. As a base case place a man in the woods with nothing but a knife and a string and tell him to survive. If he does not choose to be “in pursuit” of satisfying his basic needs then he is as good as dead. If living does not make you happy then that is because you cease to appreciate what the natural world has to offer, or you have been convinced that a reward awaits you in a better place after you die.. This is the crux of the problem complex societies create; ceasing to understand the beauty and necessity of the natural world and to appreciate our place in it.
Our society, dependent of fossil fuels, has made the pursuit of necessity an easy task. Upon removing the need to pursue basic needs people create abstract necessities to pursue. Our need to dominate our natural surroundings is a perversely abstracted concept at this point. When you pursue abstraction then I agree you will never be happy.
At this point requiring our abstracted world to revert to some more balanced natural state is inconceivable. Central planners still believe this can be achieved by force, through laws, and elite run bureaucracies. All perversions for the need to dominate our surroundings instead of living in balance with it.
As to the second part of your statement, I tend to agree with it, but on a cosmic scale as opposed to limiting it to a planetary scale.
To be “in pursuit” of something is subjective. As a base case place a man in the woods with nothing but a knife and a string and tell him to survive. If he does not choose to be “in pursuit” of satisfying his basic needs then he is as good as dead. If living does not make you happy then that is because you cease to appreciate what the natural world has to offer, or you have been convinced that a reward awaits you in a better place after you die.. This is the crux of the problem complex societies create; ceasing to understand the beauty and necessity of the natural world and to appreciate our place in it.
Our society, dependent of fossil fuels, has made the pursuit of necessity an easy task. Upon removing the need to pursue basic needs people create abstract necessities to pursue. Our need to dominate our natural surroundings is a perversely abstracted concept at this point. When you pursue abstraction then I agree you will never be happy.
At this point requiring our abstracted world to revert to some more balanced natural state is inconceivable. Central planners still believe this can be achieved by force, through laws, and elite run bureaucracies. All perversions for the need to dominate our surroundings instead of living in balance with it.
As to the second part of your statement, I tend to agree with it, but on a cosmic scale as opposed to limiting it to a planetary scale.
-narnia-
if history has taught us anything, it is that “social cohesion” cannot be mandated by force. no one can make me like you or value what you value and vice-versa. true “social cohesion” only comes when you and I come together voluntarily. the more you try to make that involuntary, the less likely we are to peacefully coexist
if history has taught us anything, it is that “social cohesion” cannot be mandated by force. no one can make me like you or value what you value and vice-versa. true “social cohesion” only comes when you and I come together voluntarily. the more you try to make that involuntary, the less likely we are to peacefully coexist
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